Intro: 0:05

Welcome to the business of Houston Hospitality, where we visit with and learn from the people behind Houston's vibrant and diverse hospitality industry. Each week we speak with owners and operators of restaurants, hotels, venues, attractions, museums, theaters, and more. Please welcome your host, president of the Houston Hospitality Alliance and founder of Convive Hospitality Consultant, Jonathan Horowitz.

Jonathan: 0:33

Greetings from Houston. This is the business of Houston hospitality. I am your host, Jonathan Horowitz. And today I will be speaking with Katie Duhan from International Meeting Managers. As always, we'll talk about Katie's history in Houston. How are businesses doing? What Katie thinks about the Houston hospitality industry and what's coming up in the future. So welcome to the show, Katie.

Catie: 0:57

Hi. Thank you.

Jonathan: 0:59

Thank you for being

Catie: 1:00

be here.

Jonathan: 1:00

Yeah, we appreciate it. So, you know, get us started a little bit and tell us a little bit about your background and your history and kind of where you're from and what you've been doing and how you got to where you are now.

Catie: 1:13

Sure. I love to. And it's, it's a long and winding story and also an incredibly direct shot in a way that it isn't normally. So

Jonathan: 1:22

Well, those are the best kind long, long and winding are the best kind

Catie: 1:26

Okay, good. I'll start by saying I am a native Houstonian. I'm born and raised, and I think I'm a rare breed these days, at least in our hospitality bubble, right? I mean, Houston is massive, and I think there's many of us who have grown up and stayed here, but in tourism and hospitality industry, People always kind of like, you know, are surprised when I say that. So I was born and raised here on the northwest side of town, and just moved a little closer to the city, and feels like I'm in a completely different place from where I grew up. So, Houston is big enough for you can do that.

Jonathan: 1:58

does not surprise me. And how long ago was that move.

Catie: 2:03

Probably, gosh, I guess, 18 ish years ago, 16. I'm terrible with backward timelines. But pretty much as soon as I, I went to school at Sam Houston State University in Huntsville. So an hour north of Houston and then came back from school. and kind of stayed near home base for maybe a year and then moved out here. So it's been that long

Jonathan: 2:27

Nice. Nice. So now you're a, an official inner beltway, inner looper.

Catie: 2:33

in our beltway. I don't know if I'll ever go interlude. We all know what that means, or if you grew up here, you know what that means. But yeah, no, I'm, I'm nestled perfectly in what I think is the perfect spot. I've got like the best of a neighborhood, but I'm also like, Five minutes from every freeway. So I just don't know if I can ever leave the convenience of my bubble.

Jonathan: 2:54

That's, that's a good thing. No, it's, it's great that city is certainly large enough that everybody can find somewhere that really suits them.

Catie: 3:02

Truly, there are so many pockets. You can go and enjoy one and live at a different one and it's, I think you could live here forever and still not experience all of it.

Jonathan: 3:11

That is true. Although everybody should try.

Catie: 3:14

You should try it. And that's what we're here to help people do, right?

Jonathan: 3:18

So what did you go to school for? What'd you

Catie: 3:20

So I went to school to become a teacher. I wasn't 100 percent sure like what I wanted to do. I grew up dancing and knew I was going to become a dance teacher when I graduated, which is, you know, kind of random. And so when it was time to go to college, I was like this overachiever kid, but like didn't have a lot of direction for the future. You know, I wasn't like on track for anything specific. And so I went to school and I was like, Oh, I'll be a teacher. That's great. It's a good fit. So I went to school for education with my friends. And while I was there, here's where my long and winding story begins while I was in school. I wanted to get involved in something. I had done drill team in high school, which is a dance team with a 65 high school girls. So I did not want to do a sorority, but I wanted to get involved. I knew I wanted to be active and involved in something on campus. And so I joined the student. Programming board or planning board. So the group that plans all the campus events ours is called program council. And so I got involved in that and then right away started working for it and became president. And so all through my years in college, I planned campus events and once I got into school, I figured out like, oh, I, I want to be an art teacher. So my degree is actually in studio art. Painting and printmaking and sculpture and all of that. But by the time it was time to graduate, I knew I didn't want to go and teach kids all day. Love them, but I didn't want to get my teaching certificate. And I decided that I like, so I always say that my college education was really what I did at school, not necessarily in school. And so I learned what event planning was and discovered this world and decided that that was my passion and a great fit and decided I wanted to pursue that career. And so I have a degree in art and an education in event planning.

Jonathan: 5:07

sure. Yeah. I mean, and then all of a sudden you realize, Hey, you can actually make a career out of this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Catie: 5:12

You can, and I tell people all the time, you know, and we'll talk a little bit about what our company does, but. We do meetings, events, and association management. And so when I'm talking to my association friends or trying to explain to anyone what that is, I always say the only way into this field, into this job is to stumble into it accidentally, you know, people say doctor, teacher, lawyer, and you're like, great, understood. And you say, I do association management and everybody's eyes just kind of get wide, like no context.

Jonathan: 5:41

I can imagine. Yeah. And actually now you know, running an association that uses an association management consulting company. I'm very familiar with the process.

Catie: 5:51

Right, exactly. And so it's, yeah, the, the way that you get there is, you know, you never know how, but that's exactly it. So in college, I got exposed to it and then found my way into it. I was like, here's what I'm going to do. And sought out a job and landed at international meeting managers. So I have actually been here since this is where I say it's like a winding road and also incredibly indirect shot. So I got hired on an IMM. As a part time administrative assistant, not long after college, I knew I was like, I, I remember saying in my interview, like, I think I'll be really good at this and like hoping for it. I liked the people in the office. I had some options and I was like, I think this is the way that I want to go. And. Then it was just like off to the races since then I got to do every position in the company Moved up obviously went full time moved up got to do everything. We planned medical meetings. I worked on galas managed associations I mean the list is vast and then at the beginning of 2022 I actually purchased the company from the previous owner. So There we go.

Jonathan: 7:00

full circle. So, so how many years total has it been with IMM?

Catie: 7:05

I think this year. I think i'm in year 16 right now

Jonathan: 7:10

Amazing. Amazing. So.

Catie: 7:12

is actually about to celebrate may is our 38th anniversary.

Jonathan: 7:16

Wow. Wow. So you've you've been involved almost half of, of the company lifetime.

Catie: 7:23

I guess so. When you do the math. Yes.

Jonathan: 7:24

And was it, was it kind of a, a small privately owned, what, what was it like when you got there?

Catie: 7:31

Yeah. So the previous owner, Lynn Tyrus started the company in 1986. She had worked at Baylor college of medicine, planning medical meetings, and. ended up, you know, decided to start her own company and do that. So that was sort of where all that began. And then her company grew. So then I got there in early 2009. So somebody can check my math and see if my years are right. I just kind of say forever. And so when I got there, we probably had about 10 people. We are managing multiple medical associations a nonprofit organization. Like I said, doing a big fundraising gala and just a whole variety of events. And so I got to kind of learn from the ground up. We kind of had like different accounts and sort of teams within the company, but it's a family company. At one point, her daughter worked there. At one point, her granddaughter worked there. So I always say that. It's a family business, and I'm sort of like family by proxy, so I got to inherit the family business and so her husband worked there, so yeah, it's very, it's a boutique, it's a family, it's intimate

Jonathan: 8:36

What does the company look like now? How, how large is it? And, and, you know, give us a sense of what you're focused on and what the business is like and, and all of the different things that you deal with on a regular basis.

Catie: 8:50

Sure. So, Today the company we have four full time experienced meeting and event planners and association professionals, kind of people who have the skill set across all of that. And then we also have what we call the extended team of contractors who will work as needed or part time as sort of You know, with events and, and meetings, there's, you know, peaks and valleys in the season. So we've got our extended team and then we'll call on people as needed. But sort of our, what I kind of call the A team is our four full time day in and day out who are managing everything. And our book of business has certainly changed like everybody else. COVID certainly had an impact on that. Things shifted and changed. And of course, just. Things naturally change over time. So right now we are actually doing several fundraising luncheons, luncheons or dinners, galas, however you want to call them, each one's a little different. But more of the special events doing production. So sort of me specifically as a planner, one of my kind of specialties is the like AV. production piece of it. So I help design the stage sets. I certainly don't have like the extreme technical knowledge. I work with my AV partners on that, but you know, designing big LED wall sets, developing the themes and graphics that'll go in there, developing the show and the program and, and all of that piece. So I really enjoy that like technical production side of things as well as just like the overall design of a special event. So we've got that. We also do conferences for association and medical conferences. So more of the faculty management and, you know, presentation development kind of thing. And then, of course, our association management piece. So we, as so we're considered an association management company and AMC. And so for some people that is full service, so we serve as their headquarters, we, someone in our team is the executive director. We manage the board, the membership, the accounting, everything that they do. Right. They're full ops. And so we sort of serve as headquarters and then for some other associations, we just sort of supplement either their team or their volunteer base. We might do events for them or support their marketing or some like admin ops kind of stuff. Our client base is pretty broad, so we do non profit, association, personal, private, corporate. So sometimes we may also do like a lunch and learn or maybe an outing. Last week we, or two weeks ago, we had in a row a concert, an art show, and a dinner. So there's just like, that's a day in the life of the variety of what we do.

Jonathan: 11:31

That's fantastic. So, you know, you mentioned a few minutes ago that things have changed over the years and your book of business and clientele and everything have shifted. I think it'd be great if you could kind of give us. A little bit of that evolution and what you've seen in the industry, you know, obviously It's easy to make the comparison pre covid post covid, you know how things have changed and and what's become different, but i'm curious to know sort of the The trends and evolution of, of what you've seen over the years in terms of how, and particularly corporate, but, but how events in general have shifted and evolved over the years. And what are people looking for now?

Catie: 12:17

Yeah, I think, you know, that's a really great question. And we were just talking about this the other day. I was kind of saying, it's like, sort of like, what's different and what's the same? Because in and this is truly was like on my mind days ago, because you know, what I've seen over the last 16 years, right? And, and I think I'm in a unique position because our company has so much history. I have so many stories about even before that time. So I know, you know, Lynn would tell me stories about how. For the presentations, let's say in a medical conference, she would have to sit there and reset the actual, like little slide tiles into the slide projector. Even as I say slide projector, like I think most people in the business right now don't even have a concept of what that is, right? It's like the disc and it goes around. And so,

Jonathan: 13:07

I remember those, I remember those for sure.

Catie: 13:11

I am, I say all the time, you know, we've got all this tech and I am just, sometimes I am You know, it keeps changing, but I'm also so grateful that I did not used to have to build 100 syllabi binders by hand, but I've seen what that looks like with my own eyes, and I have such appreciation for the tools that we have now. And really, I think that's one of the biggest changes is the tech and the tools and just like how you know, computer driven we are versus how much used to be done more manually by hand on paper, kind of a thing. And you know, when I started, here's just an example with our galas we were talking about the other day. The production truly, you know, we always say like, Oh, we'll put that on a slide. Well, when I started, we were truly, we're building it in PowerPoint slides. And I know some people still are, so that's no shade, but now where we are with constantly moving animated graphics on a 40 foot led wall, I mean, it's night and day of how we produce an event like that in just that short amount of time. So I think that's changed a ton. And then even just, you know, registration systems and the tech that we're using, marketing and social media, of course, has had a huge impact on all of that. And I would say even just for conferences and conferences and events. attention span. We're talking about like what has changed people's need for like innovation, stimulation and a short attention span. You know, a 45 minute talk is incredibly hard to keep people's attention for, you know, we need these bite sizes, bite size pieces. But I think at the same time, things that haven't changed at all are sort of the process of organizing an event, the project management process, and the relationship piece. We are such a relationship business, and I would imagine maybe there's a bunch of other industries who all have the same conversation and they say the same thing, but I like to believe ours is the strongest. But we truly, I mean, the way that you deal with people and interact with new people every single day and the way that you have to work together and collaborate and, you know, shift and form these teams to execute something is I think something that hasn't changed. And so

Jonathan: 15:30

You know, I've had some interesting conversations recently with folks that we would talk a lot about sort of the customer, the client expectations and how those have changed and evolved over the years. And a lot of The discussions center around efficiencies and or budget constraints where they want the moon, but, you know, they're on a less than the moon budget, let's just say, to be nice. And, you know,

Catie: 15:56

moon budget.

Jonathan: 15:56

Yeah, paper mache. And so, you know, have you seen that? How do you deal with that? And then I want to circle back because I want to talk about client expectations and budgets and things like that. I also want to talk about, you mentioned technology, you know, and, and its impact. Also AI, you know, are you using it and how are you using it? But let's, let's talk budgets and expectations first. How has that evolved and particularly post COVID?

Catie: 16:25

Sure. So I think you're exactly right. A lot of people have a high expectation or want something and then say, Oh, but, and I'll, I'll just be transparent. And I think You know, our listeners, I would imagine some of you out there can hear some of this and it resonates. So if it does, I just want you to know that I see you and I hear you and I feel you so this is for you, but You know some of it is You know when we're for a lot of us who work in I would say especially associations and non profit Because the organizations themselves typically have a mission They're working for a purpose. You know, we can all agree that it's different than like a big corporate sales conference, right? Like these are two very different things But especially in association and non profit There's that like can you give it to us for a discount? Can we do blah blah blah and I hope that providers will donate or give discounts and all that which is Also, as a planner, that's something that we do make the ask for and we hope for, and the companies who are able to do that is fantastic. The challenge is being in the planner seat or in like a provider seat, like for us, you know, providing this planning as a service to say like, but, you know, this still, we still have to, you know, To there's still a cost to these things. So we still need to pay people for their labor, for the equipment, all of that stuff. And there is you know, there's a cost to it. And the other, one of the things that I've really been working on, like how to help communicate this to clients. So again, listeners, if you have the answer, please call me. But it's to help them understand like what that cost is. I always say that it takes. It takes so much more time than it looks like it should. So I think where we get stuck, kind of going back to the question of this expectation of, well, we want this, but it's this. There are so many pieces, there's so much below the iceberg that I think the, the person with the ideas doesn't always understand. And it just, it needs to be educated on. But like, you know, if you want that thing, it takes 10 phone calls and 40 emails and six iterations and logistics and contingency planning. And then you decide you don't want that one. You want this one. So we do it all again. Right.

Jonathan: 18:34

Well, and I think, I think sometimes, yeah, sometimes folks who are on the client side don't necessarily recognize that you're still a for profit business. They may be nonprofit, but you are still a for profit business and there has to be some margin in there for you.

Catie: 18:50

It's right. And, and, you know, for us, we're in an interesting position because we can have that conversation with a client and say, okay, great, here's what our budget is, here's what we can do, you know, we'll look into two of these, but if we do, you know, and we can make adjustments to the scope, to the plan and really help guide them on like, Okay, you want this, but realistically it costs X, you've got a Y budget. Let's talk about what that works, right? And we can help guide them with that. My heart definitely goes out to maybe a planner who's in an association position who has a board to answer to, or they're a one man show, and they can't, you know, scale. They've become this catch all, and there's this idea that in that seat you're flexible, and you can just like grow and shrink with what they, what is needed, But the reality, I talked to someone yesterday and they were like, you know, it can run with one person. And I said, hang on. No, no, no. Everything you just told me, that's not a one person job, but somehow we like stretch to make it work. And so, but again, just those conversations of. How much does it actually cost?

Jonathan: 19:55

Yeah. And we've, you know, we've heard a lot recently about downsizing and economies of scale and becoming more efficient. And, you know, I think the COVID years really, you know, accelerated that process for a lot of industries. And I think specifically with regard to say the restaurant hospitality industry, you know, folks realize that they could actually get by with. Fewer employees and, you know, do more and we talk about the role of technology in general, and we've seen that certainly coming into play in the restaurant industry where you've got more online ordering and third party delivery and all, you know, all of the other to go things that just, you know, Create convenience and speed. And that in turn creates a different expectation on the consumer side, because now they want things quicker and faster and cheaper and more value and all that. And I, you know, a lot of industries have really had to adjust and evolve. In a very short timeframe, we're talking like generational shifts in a matter of a few years. And that's highly unusual for a lot of these industries that aren't used to changing very quickly. And I think I would imagine you've seen similar things in your line of work. And then that kind of brings us back to that question of, you know, the next iteration of all of that is using AI and how is that impacting what you do? And does it help you create things in a more efficient manner in your business.

Catie: 21:34

Right. I think, again, this is something that's been very, you know, top of mind and current lately. And I will be the first to admit, I am a slow adopter of all of the AI. I do love a good, like, tech automation. I always say I'm techie enough to look like I really know what I'm doing. And then everyone thinks like, Oh, Katie's so techie. And I'm like, well, enough to impress you. Right. But I definitely love, like I'm all for, I love the efficiency that all of it brings, but on the AI side, you know, I'm kind of starting to dip my toe in the water, but my team is, is they're all the way in, they've waited in there at their waist, they're going in the deep end. But just the other day I drafted an email, sent it to a team member. And at the same time, she was doing the same thing. So somehow we happen to be working on the same thing at the same time. And our, and our emails crossed and she sent me hers. And she was like, I use chat GPT and hers was better, which was a real hit to my ego for sure. But it was great. And it was like, yeah, great. Let it be done sooner. I had one of my team members, we needed articles for a newsletter. And we weren't getting them submitted from the board. And so she took what we did have and quote, wrote an article, right? For, for our newsletter. We're not trying to, you know, we're not putting out, I don't know, the implications of what that is that. So definitely we're finding ways to use that. And even the other day we were talking about, like, can we use it to create some animations and. Do some of these things. So I'm a very tactile person. I love, and, and if we're being really honest, I like to have a little control over a certain,

Jonathan: 23:11

No, I'm shocked. Wait, a planner like that. You want to, you want to be in control of things. I am shocked.

Catie: 23:19

yeah, I know. Complete anomaly, but it is, I mean, at this point, I think there's no denying that it's a really great tool. And again, for, for, if we're talking about those of us, you know, you talk about people downsizing and trying to pack more into a day, I think it's Then yeah, that's gonna help. Why not? It's the same way like now when I watch, this is a silly example, but when I watch people like work in Excel and Word and they're doing, you know, like right click copy and I'm going like, oh, control C, control C, right? Like all these little efficiencies that I think are so obvious. And to me, It helped me move so quickly, like AI is doing the same thing.

Jonathan: 23:56

I think it's here to

Catie: 23:57

be great.

Jonathan: 23:57

Right. Right. I think it's here to stay. So let's talk a little bit about. involvement in Houston in particular the client base networking, you know, how are you generating business best practices whether that's social media or in person or advertising, you know, how do you go about making your connections and drumming up your business?

Catie: 24:23

Yeah. So there's several answers in there. The biggest one for me is just being involved in our industry. And I always say that and can then kind of like laugh. Like what industry is that? Hospitality, tourism, paintings, even like, you know, it's, it's multiple industries packed into one, but it's still like that broader, like very umbrella, I'll call it like the broader, like events community, which is a big blanket term. But first is just being involved in that. I'm a member of our local MPI chapter meeting professionals, international Houston chapter. Shout out to our amazing chapter winning awards. And also this year I'm actually the president of the Houston Society of Association Executives. So people know ASAE and TSAE and we've got an HSAE. So just being involved in that and then, and showing up to networking events and opportunities. You know, we're HHA members and so we come and participate in, in visited events and sometimes it's just a great way to keep up with the relationships that you already have and have had for a long time. We get to meet new people and stay top of mind with people get to visit with old friends, but then through that, we also get to make new connections, meet new people. I mean, truly networking at its core and just getting to kind of, you know, staying involved and knowing what's going on in the city. You know, you would ask, go ahead.

Jonathan: 25:46

Well, I was just going to ask real quick, in terms of your actual business what's the divide in the, in like percentages between your association work, management work, and then just pure event work?

Catie: 25:58

I, that's a great question. I, Say right now, we're maybe 60, 40 or maybe 70, 30 with the 30 being association. But that actually is shifting a little bit. I got kind of going, you know, touching back to a previous question of the shift from like the business before COVID. And now one of the biggest changes for IMM as a company specifically is that we used to do a lot more national. And I honestly, the first half of my career did way more planning outside of Houston than inside. And so I really didn't have to keep up as much with the Houston scene because I wasn't planning in Houston. We're based here. But that's not where I was doing business. And so so we had a lot of national contacts. And post COVID, we're doing much more local business. And so it's actually been really great, because I've gotten much more into our Houston scene, have a much not just a bigger, Kind of breadth of relationships, but very wide, you know, we know what's going on. All the venues, all the providers, you know it's a, it's a very bustling scene and I'm happy to be involved in it now. So that's a big part of like, how do we generate business now? A big part of it is just being present in our Houston community and drumming up more of that like local business. The other biggest piece is word of mouth. That's honestly always been the biggest way that we've earned business. But certainly as a business owner, we kind of joke, we've got, we're, our company's 38 years old, but also post COVID and new management, we're also like a three year old startup. So we have like the best of both, right? We've got this history and all this knowledge and these amazing best practices. And. You know, a fresh energy and a new kind of thing,

Jonathan: 27:42

That kind of parallels our situation right now with the Houston Hospitality Alliance. I mean, 60 years as the Convention and Visitors Bureau and now about a year and a half as HHA. And, you know, we, we always joke we're a 60 year old startup and it's not so much of a joke really, but I think we're, we're realizing now and we're learning more that we really are just a startup, you know, it's, it's great to have that history, but we're, Basically starting from scratch essentially and building from, from there.

Catie: 28:13

right? Well, and you know, we're talking post COVID. I think we, we feel like we're in the same position, right. And I will be again, the first to admit that I'm always like the CBB, the HHA, Houston first, I don't know which one it is today, you know, but it's all, it's all our Houston network, but yeah, we kind of joke and say the same thing. And so. What we realized recently, and we're actually about to kind of launch a new campaign to kind of make sure people are aware like, Hey, we're sort of in a new chapter. Here's what we've been doing for the last couple of years. Here's how we work with people. This is what we're able to provide for you. I've kind of been on this mission and now I really want to get it out there to let our people know what we're doing. Fellow planners know that, like, we're here to help, to supplement, to support because, you know, we don't just work, like I said, for one organization, one company, we're able to step in and help. And one of the biggest things that we can do for, you know, our fellow planners is when those peak times come, or when you lose a staffer and you have a gap, like our team speaks the language, knows the lingo, we're Has the skill set to just like jump in and help or to like, you know, help in small times. And then of course for other organizations who are ready to grow, who are ready to add a position or expand their staff or whatever that may be, you know, there's so many, so many ways that we can serve people. But that's one that for sure we're trying to tell people, like, we care about you and we're here to help. Cause we have such a unique way that we can work with clients.

Jonathan: 29:42

Do you do, do you find it helpful or do you think, you know, do you spend anything on actual traditional advertising? Do you need to, does it make any sense for a business like yours or is it really just the networking and word of mouth, you know type of marketing?

Catie: 30:00

Yeah. So ask me again in three years. And I'll tell you if this has changed, but right now it really is the networking and the relationships. We've really been doing a lot of thought, asking ourselves the same question that you're asking me, who is our audience? Who can we best serve? One of the things that we as a company love, and I think we've just, I don't know if we've just gotten really lucky or if it's one of those like karma things, you know, you get what you put out in the world. But pretty much all the clients that we work with are doing good work and sort of my personal philosophy and what we, you know, practice as a team is that our skill set is, is what we can kind of offer to, like, make the world a better place, help other people support their cause. I've always said, like, I'm not a doctor. But if I can plan the conference where they share the knowledge that disseminates the new research, then I'm, you know, I've got an important role to play in that. And that goes for so many things. And so, you know, with that, we just kind of exploring like who can we serve best and how can we offer our services and who, who needs our services. A lot of times it's somebody in a marketing department who has been, the events are dumped on or an executive assistant at who. I can't think of it, sir. Dumb time, right? And it takes so much time. So we're exploring the same thing and just kind of trying to reach out and make sure people understand like that. We're here because what I've learned in the last few months is like, most people don't understand how we work with people and that there's a service like ours available. So right now we're on an awareness campaign and then I'll tell you more about that. Yeah. Later if we decided to turn to advertising, but also it's to take on a new client as we talked about, like it's a lot of work. So you know, you don't

Jonathan: 31:50

Yeah, that certainly makes sense. And, you know, obviously there's a desire for growth over, over time, but the organic growth is seemingly always the best way to go in terms of things that are incremental and manageable. Right. For, particularly for an organization with a smaller team. It's great to be able to have the resources that you can draw on to, to grow. Have you had folks that you know, kind of started out in, in sort of the support or part time or contract folks that, that ended up becoming full time employees?

Catie: 32:26

multiple times. Yeah. So that's one of the things that I think is really great. We make a point to cultivate that team and to keep you know, aside from cultivating sort of industry relationships and, you know, potential, you know, prospect relationships. I also spent a lot of time cultivating. You know, contractors, people who can work with us, people who, you know, maybe down the line. So when someone makes a recommendation to me or someone says, like, I might be interested in X, Y, Z, you know, I kind of keep that in the burner to or bring them into work events with us and kind of start to learn our team and our culture so that we can draw on them when we need them. Because like we said, if somebody calls us tomorrow and says, Hey, we want to do this event, then great. And I've got people I can call on to manage that. Yeah. To support our team. So there's a lot of ways. So, like you said, on the one hand, very managed growth. And on the other hand, we're very ready to take on new business and to, to be able to scale up. And because we've got a whole team that kind of does the same thing. It's not the like, okay, we have to figure out how to train one person to do this job, like we've kind of got that. So they kind of slide in and learn. And anyway, it's a really, it's a really effective model.

Jonathan: 33:38

Yeah, no, that's great. I, I was going to ask you with regard to just the business in Houston that you've seen and, and particularly talking present time post COVID, you know, how things have gone over the past couple of years, but you know, what do you envision? What are you predicting for the upcoming, let's say two to four, two to five years, Any trends that you're seeing you know, we, we've been told and the statistics suggest that Houston kind of came through the pandemic years better than other major cities around the country. The economy here is generally quite good. We are continuing to grow obviously as a city, but more specifically within Your business, your line of work, hospitality industry in general that you kind of exist within in, in the Houston market, what are you thinking for the next few years? What do you, what do you see on, on the horizon for Houston and this industry?

Catie: 34:40

Yeah. I, I think it looks great. And I'll, you know, I'll speak from my lens and maybe others have a different perspective, but kind of what I've been seeing is. Sort of a rebalancing or resettling, if you will. So, you know, COVID came on the planner and we all learned a completely new skill set and went virtual and did all of this. And at the same time, somehow it's, you know, it'll take years for us to know how related or unrelated it is. We were in this really big push for like experiential and immersive and like all of this like very special stuff. What kind of felt like we were like escalating and escalating and you know, let's have all this stimulation. And again, from my lens, I'm seeing a lot of that calm down and we're getting back to what feels just like classic, traditional, you know, going back to what we were saying, what's different and what's the same. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? Like some things just work. And so a lunch meeting with a great speaker or a networking event that's just in a really good environment and has the right group of people involved. And, you know, conferences that run smoothly and aren't overstimulating and don't have you going in a million directions and exhausting you.

Jonathan: 35:54

Do you think that reversion is due somewhat to you know, reduced budgets just yet? Yeah. saying, look, we're, we're not going to spend insane amounts of money on all these experiential things and all the bells and whistles and all, you know, let's go back to basics. You think that's driven by budgetary issues or more just people not feeling like they're going crazy with, with all this stuff after, you know, after the, the COVID years.

Catie: 36:24

Yeah, I, I think that there's a, there's probably a lot of things in there. Oddly enough, I think maybe in the beginning it was budgets, but again, looking to the future, people are back to spending money, partners, sponsors. Like we're, we're back to that. People want to get engaged, want to sponsor, want to leverage those like, you know, marketing, sponsorship opportunities, that kind of thing. And our audiences do expect a certain level of. You know, what I'll call production value, but not, it's not necessarily like, you know, production, like a show, but a certain level of event for what they're paying. So I think maybe there's some budget stuff in there that kind of had everybody slow down a little bit, but I also think it's going like, hang on, that's too much, right? We worked with a client who they were like, let's do this and this and this and this and this. And we were like, okay, you know, you're telling us that's what your, your people want. Well, then we observed them for a year or two and went like, No, they're not doing all that. They're sitting and talking together. Like, you don't need all these bells and whistles for people to have a good experience and be engaged. So pulling back some of that, I think, you know, at a conference. To not have to run around, leave the hotel six times, you know, to have a few minutes to calm down and decompress and be away from the stimulation. I always say, you know, how do we want people to leave feeling? Cause like, they're going to have this great time. And then when they leave the event, what are they going to talk about? And do we want them to leave going like, Oh, I'm exhausted. Or do we want them to leave going like, that was so nice, I really enjoyed it. And I think to get the, that was so nice version, you have to like, remember we're human beings and only capable of so much interaction and stimulation. So I really think that, that it's that. I think if you give a really nice, but not overwhelming experience, that like, that's the win.

Jonathan: 38:15

That's great. No, I think I think it makes perfect sense and only time will tell, right. You know, we'll see what the next few years bring as, as we kind of adjust to this new normal, whatever that is, you know, and everybody kind of settles in and gets back into routines. I mean, we've seen Obviously a lot of changes. I mean, you know, folks not going back to the office as much, working remotely everything has changed in some form or fashion. So all of this is sort of reflective of those societal changes, economic changes you know, lots of different considerations at play here. But I certainly I certainly appreciate all of those perspectives. And that, that experience and that knowledge is is fantastic. So I want to bring this to a conclusion by asking you our three questions. So

Catie: 39:11

Okay, I'm ready.

Jonathan: 39:11

here they are starting out. Number one, Katie, what is your favorite travel destination? If you had to get on a plane tomorrow for no reason whatsoever, but you wanted to go somewhere and you love it, where would it be? Where would you go?

Catie: 39:29

Okay. My official answer is San Diego.

Jonathan: 39:35

Really? I love San Diego.

Catie: 39:37

I mean, who doesn't love San Diego? It's just, I'm a beach girl at heart and it's a lovely city and it's easy and it's, it's a lot of things. I love it for

Jonathan: 39:48

is always perfect. The weather

Catie: 39:50

It really is. And it's just unfair. So, you know, but I would love to just have a plug that my current like Goal destination is Alaska. I am like, that is the next place that I am headed to go adventure.

Jonathan: 40:05

Good for you. Yes. I was literally just talking two or three days ago to somebody and talking about how extraordinarily beautiful Alaska is. I haven't done it yet. But everybody that I talked to talk about, you know, just how beautiful it is and fantastic. So I hope you get there soon.

Catie: 40:22

Thank you. Me too. And if any other destinations would like to prove me wrong about San Diego, I would love to come check it out.

Jonathan: 40:28

Absolutely. Okay. Question number two. You are talking to someone from somewhere else around the country who has never been to Houston and you have got to convince them to come visit. What are you going to tell them is the best reason for them to hop on a plane or jump in a car and come visit our fair city?

Catie: 40:51

that's a tough one. We have so many good answers, but I think the way I'm going to hook them is food and restaurants. We are such a foodie town. If we weren't before, we are now. As a native Houstonian, I've gotten to see the city change over the last 10 years. And specifically in our like tourism sector, right? Like what we have to offer visitors, but I think that's a huge one.

Jonathan: 41:17

I agree. I agree. Yeah, I've been here. Which one? Art scene. Yes.

Catie: 41:22

Our art scene. We've got, you know, our music and theater so much.

Jonathan: 41:28

very, very underappreciated. I've had a number of conversations where, you know, folks talk about how under recognized and underappreciated the, the performing arts, the museums the attractions there are, as you say, I mean, so many fantastic reasons, but fortunately for us and for the city, the food scene, the culinary scene here has been successful. Really gotten the recognition that it deserves over the past, call it five to 10 years and has really made a national splash and it's, it's very well deserved. So I, I would definitely agree with you. I've been here now 34 years and have, have witnessed, you know, that evolution and that growth and now to see the recognition and folks from around the country wanting to come here and, and experience the culinary scene, I think is fantastic. So we're very fortunate in that regard.

Catie: 42:21

we are. And again, like it's one of those, like we can live here forever and never experience at all. So it's, there's, we're spoiled,

Jonathan: 42:30

For sure. For sure. Okay. Last question. Number three for you back to business. If you are going to be advising somebody younger who is coming up through the ranks and wants to be the next you, what is one of the most important things? If you're going to pass something along to the next generation, what have you learned in your business career that you would pass along to them to help make them successful?

Catie: 42:57

This is a very hard question.

Jonathan: 43:01

That's why it's the last one.

Catie: 43:03

That's why it's the last one I have. Can I have two answers?

Jonathan: 43:07

We'll make an exception.

Catie: 43:09

Okay, number one is simple. I'd say experience as much as you can be exposed to as much as you can. I've gotten to do the things that I personally have gotten to do just because by way of exposure and learn so much. My official answer would be that it's the little things that really do add up and count. So you can be amazing at these big things and, and have all the bells and whistles and the flashy stuff, but there are so many little things that will get you to a place of having just like high quality, Good service, like really good habits of just like how you do your work and what you present to people, and it's a lot of little things that people may not notice, but they know when it's not there, and so

Jonathan: 43:56

The devil's in the details.

Catie: 43:57

hour on just that.

Jonathan: 43:59

The devil's in the details. Yeah. Always, Well, thank you so much for that. And again, thank you for sharing with us you know, part of your story and the history and your thoughts on business. and events and hospitality in Houston. It is certainly much appreciated. We have been talking to Katie Duhan from International Meeting Managers here in Houston, Texas. Many thanks to her for joining us. And of course, thanks to the Houston Hospitality Alliance for continuing to connect, educate, promote, and advocate for the entire Houston Hospitality Community. You can get more information on the HHA at www.houstonhospitalityalliance.com. Please join us next time as we continue to explore the people and the businesses behind Houston's amazing and diverse hospitality industry. Thank you again, Katie.