Intro: 0:05

Welcome to the business of Houston Hospitality, where we visit with and learn from the people behind Houston's vibrant and diverse hospitality industry. Each week we speak with owners and operators of restaurants, hotels, venues, attractions, museums, theaters, and more. Please welcome your host, president of the Houston Hospitality Alliance and founder of Convive Hospitality Consultant, Jonathan Horowitz.

Jonathan: 0:34

Greetings from Houston. I am your host, Jonathan Horowitz. And today I will be speaking with Lenny Ambrose, the chief marketing officer from the iconic St. Arnold brewery in Houston. As always, we'll talk about Lenny's history in the city, how his business is doing and what Lenny thinks about Houston's hospitality industry and its future. Welcome to the show, Lenny. Thank you for being here.

Lennie: 0:59

Thanks, Jonathan. You were one of the first people I met when I got into the hospitality Industry in Houston. So this is kind of cool for me to see your career change and go in all these different directions. And now you're in a real live podcast studio. So,

Jonathan: 1:21

Who'da, who'da thunk it. Yeah, who'da thunk it. So remind me when, how long ago was that? I mean, I'm guessing it's probably 15, 16 years, but tell me, tell me the timeframe and then, you know, kind of how you came to be in Houston and how you got to be doing what you're doing.

Lennie: 1:36

So that would have been about 15, 16 years ago, 16 probably years ago. I started at at St. Arnold January 2nd of 2007. So just over 17 years ago. And it's when you were with the tasting room and some, you know, fun, like wine events, and you kind of wanted to break into some beer events too. So we worked together on some of those and some pairing things. And so that, that was cool. And You know, honestly, the tasting room was one of the first places that my wife and I kind of gravitated to when we moved to Houston, partially because of your involvement there. And you guys certainly, I, I feel like at that time were sort of trailblazers in the hospitality industry and the kinds of things you were doing. It, it always felt different to go in a different in a good way to go into a tasting room location. You know, you were going to be treated right and you were going to find interesting things when you went there. You know, it was on that that era of like, The food network influence over food and drink. And everybody was kind of searching for new stuff, you know, it was before Instagram or whatever. So where do you find out about new things and, Oh my God, look, this crazy burger that they're doing or wine fight with a pairing. Like, what is that? And you guys were doing that then, you know, really well. And that honestly kind of taught me a lot about the industry and what hospitality was before I came to St. Arnold, I was in sports broadcasting for 12 years. A sportscaster in various markets around the country. And the last one of those was Beaumont, Texas. And I was there for five years and met my wife in Beaumont at the NBC station is where I was working. And I decided eventually I wanted to get out of TV. local TV, and I was making very little money, even as the sports director at the NBC station in Beaumont, and I took Yeah, and then I make less money and come to work at St. Arnold. Eventually I hit up the owner Brock for about a year. He and I went back and forth for a long time. And he was like, you know, I just don't have a job for you. I don't think, and you know, if I come up with it, then I'll let you know. And I just sort of worked without a contract at the TV station. And And so it was a, a different world when I started starting up our Twitter account here at St. Arnold and that sort of thing. And that's right when I started was kind of that. New era of connection to a customer or fans that you didn't have all the time. And I, I've thought about a lot actually in hospitality, if social media didn't exist. And yes, you can say good things and bad things. And there's many books written about that and many podcasts about that too. But if we didn't have that daily, Minute to minute connection with our guests, our customers tourists, people looking to come to town. What would that look like? And I almost kind of wonder like, what did people do before they could announce their pizza special on Twitter or on Facebook or on Instagram? How did that look day to day?

Jonathan: 5:00

Well, we've yeah, we've, we've certainly come a long way. And I remember, you know, you talking about going back to, you know, the early 2000s and, and I remember doing the, the beer and cheese pairings with Lindsay from Dairy Maids, right? Another Houston institution. Again, great. You know, business has been around a long time and kind of, you know, developing we, we, I, I feel like we've been on similar paths over the years in terms of developing businesses and how the kind of hospitality industry has evolved around us. And we've kind of been part of that which has been really interesting and exciting and, and sometimes scary and disappointing and all of the things in between. But I do, you know, I want to talk a little bit about specifically about St. Arnold and I have memories, you know, being a graduate of Rice University as is Brock the founder of St. Arnold. And I remember the first time I met him at the now no longer standing ginger man in the Rice village. I think it was torn down last week, actually, finally, after all these years end of a true era. But I remember him coming in previewing some of the first beers to be released by St. Arnold at, in the back courtyard of the ginger man. And that was kind of my introduction to the brand. So I want to talk about how it was really you that built the entire company and not Brock as we go forward. But yeah, give me, give me a little bit of the history, you know, of, Of the business San Arnold brewery and kind of your place for the past 17 years and how you have, you know, grown and helped that business expand as it has.

Lennie: 6:45

St. Arnold turns 30 this year. June 9th, 1994 is the, the date that the first kegs were shipped. And the ginger man got a keg of Amber ale on day one. The big easy. Here, the ginger man area was one day one star pizza. The original star pizza was a day one recipient of kegs JP hops house, which is like a little dive bar that I don't think is currently open, but I don't also think is officially closed. So I don't really know how out in the West and then the Richmond arms,

Jonathan: 7:24

Oh, yeah,

Lennie: 7:25

What were the day one recipients of Amber Ale and five years ago they were all still open and we had this tradition of going around to all of the original accounts actually, and a big bus as a company and visiting them. That event is going to look different this year because Ginger man is gone, Richmond arms is gone. And JP hops house is pretty much gone. But you know, it started in this warehouse. off of a 610 290 area, and it was your pretty standard craft brewery, which, you know, there's a lot that are still in warehouses. I think people have done more to make them look less warehousey these days than the, the original St. Arnold did but you know, back in those days, I wasn't there for the opening, but it was still the case when I joined in 2007, you know, daily you were telling people what craft beer was just introducing them. It was such. This atmosphere of education day in and day out and people saying, well, I don't want to drink fancy beer. I don't like heavy beer. And then you have to say things like, well our lawnmower beer isn't. And then it's, you know, this discovery phase. And I think that discovery phase carried crap. So much until maybe like two years ago, and I personally think that's part of why there's been a little bit of downturn in the industry, but you know, Brock, I think. Had the insight to do tours immediately to welcome people into the brewery immediately to start a newsletter immediately. A lot of the people that are on our email newsletter list have been on that list since 1994 you know, shortly after. And that was still when. Email was a novel idea. And we were at that same location doing private events, doing tours until like 2009 ish is really when the transition over to this facility started and then really, you know, kind of 2010, because we needed a better place to welcome the public. And a bigger place to brew more beer. So it was really both. It wasn't just, you know, we're out of space and we need to brew more. We needed a better place to represent ourselves in the city of Houston. And that kind of became a game changer. You know, when I started, we didn't really have a banner to take to events, so I had to get those printed. And it really was just Learning for me, but I think learning for the company as well, because Brock just didn't have anybody to kind of handle that sort of thing. But community involvement has always been a cornerstone of what we do.

Jonathan: 10:13

yeah. And so I wanted to touch on that a little bit because I know from personal experience how involved everyone over there has been in the community, in the hospitality industry in Houston for so long. But before we jump into that. Just describe for anybody listening the scope of the business now, because obviously over the years it has grown exponentially. I mean, it started as a, as a small local brand, but how far and wide is your reach now? Where can people go to find St. Arnold beer throughout the country?

Lennie: 10:50

You know, honestly, Jonathan, it hasn't changed drastically. People from the outside, you would look at it and say that it has. I kind of think we are more similar than maybe some other breweries are. So when I started, I'm trying to remember how many barrels of beer we made at that warehouse. But I think we capped out at 24, 000 barrels for some reason that resonates with me. So when I started maybe it was like 18, 000 or something. This past year we brewed about 62, 000 barrels. So that sounds like a lot. But when you consider somebody like Shiner is a half a million barrels or more. That's an ocean of difference, you know, between a lot of people, maybe mentally just kind of think, oh, Shiner and St. Arnold, it's sort of the same thing. We're still available just in Texas and Louisiana, and that has been the case for 10 years or so. We dabbled a little bit in Florida and we dabbled a little bit in Colorado. And pulled out of those markets pretty quick because it just didn't make sense. And I think that's another, time that we got it right before other people kind of did, we sort of decided we just want to focus on our home market because why do people want to buy our beer in Florida? And yes, the scope of our operation has changed here at this current facility. I think what the biggest game changer was for us is when we opened the beer garden. Being open day to day as a restaurant, as a beer garden, because the People that we get here in house, it's so much different than a normal customer maybe that buys our beer off the shelf. People from all over coming here you guys Houston Hospitality does a great job of sending people here. Houston First does a great job of sending people here. You know, we appear on all the like, best breweries to visit in Houston, or best patios in Houston, or things like that. And so that. I would say has been the biggest change. And then we've adapted from there as far as new beers and new offerings and making sure that the food menu is up to date on, on what people want and hiring an executive chef and not just, you know, burger flippers or whatever, like really putting emphasis on the food program here. And then so that

Jonathan: 13:24

I, I know from, from experience having experienced some of the, the beer dinners that, that go on periodically now, which are, you know, just as impressive for the food as they are for the beer. And the facility in general is such a, a fantastic place. You know, it's, as you mentioned, appearing on all the lists and places to go, but, you know, I, I talked to folks. who bring people to Houston for whatever reason, family visits or, you know, people coming for conventions or sporting events, or even to go to the med center, whatever it is. St. Arnold is always on the list of places to visit because not only is it a great product, it's a great experience. And I think, you know, we, we spend, So much time in the hospitality industry talking about the consumer's desires and what people want nowadays, and it is so much about the experience. We think about restaurants and hotels and other venues that, you know, maybe in the past were known for one thing. Now. I don't believe one thing is just enough. It has to be a full overarching experience for, for people. And you've got to be able to give them a good value. And, and, you know, from my perspective, St. Arnold in terms of a product has always been a great value. Now, maybe I'm a little biased, but be that as it may, I think it's still a, a very good value and the experience is fantastic. And I think part of the reason why you all always show up on all of those best of lists. Is your involvement in the community and your forward facing activity that You know, allows people to interact with your brand on a regular basis. I think made, makes a huge difference. So I, I do want to give you the opportunity to talk a little bit about the level of community involvement and support that the St. Arnold Brand does on a, on a regular basis. And then, you know, how you come to kind of curate that and what you do and what you find both rewarding from a personal, you know, kind of karma perspective, and then also rewarding from a business perspective because as we know, and you alluded to earlier the craft beer industry is going through a bit of a rough patch. We've seen a lot of closures here locally and you know, it seems that Saint Arnold really stays above that and I think that owes a lot to your community involvement and, and activities. So give us a sense of how that all came to be and, and how you decide what it is that you're going to do and what you're going to support.

Lennie: 16:03

Really is marketing for us. You know, when I first started, that was one of the things Brock told me is we like to find organizations that we personally like and fit within the company's sort of ethos or, you know, an employee is really involved in a particular charity or community. Community organization. So we, we personally like it. And then can we justify it from a business perspective. And really, I've never had the brakes put on me at all. As far as community involvement. We Will always be outbid by the Miller cores of the world on a financial sponsorship for something. And I tell people this all the time, if you can go out and get the big money for a sponsorship, do it. I don't begrudge anybody for doing that at all, but. If it's more that you want community assistance from us, and that can mean just a beer donation, three cases for an event. It could mean we're helping promote the event, which I think we have a pretty loud voice that, you know, people listen to, and beer. Or maybe we're out at the event. It can, you know, sort of be different levels. But if that's the right fit, then that's what we want to do. One of my. Favorite. I think it's like the perfect alignment of things is our involvement with the Houston Zoo. You have one of the most visited zoos in the country. They're currently doing work in Every day, every year on big projects to make it look better, you know, more welcoming when you walk in the door. And that's one that definitely grew organically for us. It started as us giving them beer for their young professionals events. Probably 15 years ago or so, and it kind of grew a little bit more. And then we were doing other events with them and then combining on events. And now we are basically the official beer of the Houston zoo. And it's one of our top accounts, which is great selling beer. We love that, but also it's one of the most visible and main places that people visit in Houston, both Houstonians and non Houstonians.

Jonathan: 18:25

Yeah. And, and I'll, I'll tell you that the zoo is one of our biggest partners and members at the Houston hospitality Alliance and Jackie Wallace, who's their PR director and marketing director is on our board. And. You know, we have done events there as well. And we know of that connection and it is, as you say, it's such a fantastic representation of Houston's hospitality in general. It's, it's fantastic that an organization like that and a venue like that has the support of a local business. Like yours and that has grown and developed over the years. It makes a huge difference and allows them to do some really great things. And also, you know, from a business perspective, gives, gives you some really good exposure, which is fantastic on both sides.

Lennie: 19:14

Yeah. People always lose that trivia contest when I'm asking, you know, Hey, what do you think our top accounts are and finds out that the zoo is one of them. So we're selling a good bit of beer there, but also we do social media videos with the Houston zoo and more than a few times a year are helping to broadcast their message from our channels. And then they are Mentioning us or taking pictures. We did a, a combination beer with them one time when they opened the Texas wetlands exhibit. So to me, that's just all of the, the, the perfect alignment of all of the things coming together. It was an organic partnership and I'm sure they could get more money from somebody else, but they see the value and working with us as well. And so that's. That's why I do what I do. We're not working on multimillion dollar ad campaigns. And in fact, I think sometimes we struggle with that a little bit candidly You know, should we be getting a bunch of billboards? Should we be doing TV? What's right for a business of our size to do. And we usually kind of come back to now let's just kind of double down on people and our commitment to the community. And that is, you know, kind of what drives us. And so again, it could be just a couple cases for a fun run or something, you know, like the Houston zoo. Or support of the Astros. That's kind of a no brainer as well in some cases.

Jonathan: 20:51

Got a great presence in that stadium.

Lennie: 20:53

Yeah, we, and that's, that came about organically too. You know, it was one of the guys at the Astros, like St. Arnold, and how can we make this work? It wasn't just, you know, them scattershotting a proposal to anybody that would pay them the most money. And hopefully, Relatable and a little bit to other businesses, you know, of our size within Houston.

Jonathan: 21:17

exactly. Yeah. And, and I had seen over the years, you know, in our businesses, the importance of getting involved in the community and bringing people in and giving them that. opportunity to experience the brand in whatever form or fashion. And I know that there's another one big coming up, a big one for y'all. And we at the Houston Hospitality Alliance have just decided to get involved and sponsor, which is the Art Car Parade and Art Car Ball. And something that I know is very near and dear to y'all over there at San Arnold with your various art cars. We are now sponsoring the Art Car Ball coming up and we're excited about that. But maybe you can talk a little bit about your involvement in that organization and how that has evolved over the years.

Lennie: 22:05

I did not realize y'all were doing that. So

Jonathan: 22:07

It's a new, new development as of this week.

Lennie: 22:10

that's great news. We have been a part of the art car parade and the orange show since before I worked here. And in fact, I remember like right when I started Brock said something about like, you know, we got a punt on the art car parade this year on having a car will be involved. I don't think we have time. And I remember. I remember thinking, like, what is he talking about? Like, I had no idea, and it's truly one of those things that unless you go, you really have no clue what is going on. The art car parade is it's not just little flags taped to a car, or, you know, some kid painted on the door, which is what I think people have in their mind. If you have never been, and you were listening, go now immediately you know, to the art car parade this year do not waste time and be a Houstonian that has not been to that event and again, you know, I sound like a broken record, but it's something that we all liked and thought was neat and weird and truly Houston. And so we wanted to be involved in it. And it, you know, started with the painted Bentley that we have a 1957 Bentley that was, you know, hand painted and got in the parade. And it's really one of the like tentpole events and Houston, but still somehow. A really well kept secret, I think. I run into people inside the Loop Residence that has still never been before. But

Jonathan: 23:37

And, and they get, they get 200, 000 people a year to come to the parade, which is it blows my mind. I mean, it's fantastic that they get that many. And it, it truly is one of the most iconic Houston annual events. And we're, we're really excited to be involved with it this year and always look forward to it and always pray for great weather for that, for that particular event.

Lennie: 24:00

Yeah, I've never been around a rain out for that event.

Jonathan: 24:03

No, I'm knocking on wood everywhere. I'm knocking on wood all over the place here.

Lennie: 24:07

We now have our car IPA, which is our single biggest brand. And I think it's hopefully introduced people to our cars. But when we were kicking around the name for that, which is almost 10 years ago now for that beer, we just kind of kept coming back to that. And then it was, well, what if people don't know what our cars are? And it was like, well, let's just do it anyway. It's kind of baked into the fabric of St. Arnold. All of our salespeople drive our cars around town and people know us by that. And it's just become one of those things where it's not just a really good beer. But it's also something really good about Houston. So it just makes sense. And again, that's, that kind of stuff is my favorite part of St. Arnold. And it's something that even if you're a small, much smaller business owner, you can still dabble in that kind of thing when you can't do TV or an Astro sponsorship or billboards or whatever. Just widen your circle of influence by looking around, you know, who is within four blocks. Is there a school? Is there a homeless shelter? Is there a church? And just bring those people in your fold. And as long as it is organic and true, they will feel that whether you're a boutique or a restaurant or a museum, the people around you will feel that love.

Jonathan: 25:31

yeah, no, that's great. That's great advice for any business, particularly any small business that is trying to grow. And, you know, speaking of which, and you alluded to this a little bit earlier, and We are speaking, by the way, with Lenny Ambrose, who is the Chief Marketing Officer for St. Arnold Brewery here in Houston. And I wanted to ask you, Lenny, about the state of the craft beer industry particularly within Houston. Because as we are now a few months into 2024, we have seen a number of changes locally in the beer landscape. And you know, we've seen some closures, we've seen some changes. We've also seen some new openings and some more on the horizon. So from a, a general perspective, I wanted to get your thoughts on where the craft beer industry is right now. And then. Secondarily, very specific to Houston because we are talking about the business of Houston hospitality. What do you see as the current state of craft beer in Houston? And what do you think the future might hold, knowing, by the way, that we are still kind of coming out of the COVID years? And. Dealing with some of the issues that arose during the shutdowns and various things that kind of all happened between 2024, sorry, 2020 and 2023.

Lennie: 27:01

I'm also the board chair of the Texas craft Brewers Guild. So I'm, you know, kind of plugged into to breweries around the state. And I think a lot of the closures, you can point to a particular reason that the breweries closed. That maybe we know about within the industry and the public, general public doesn't see. And so I think that's one thing. I know a lot of the ones in Houston, there are very particular reasons why they closed and it wasn't that blah, blah, blah, people don't like beer which I think it just, that becomes the narrative to a lot of people and that just, a brewery closes, you know, And then it's people don't like beer or they don't like craft craft beer anymore. And that just instantly becomes a narrative. Whereas, you know, sometimes too, it's somebody's run a brewery for five or six years and just decided, I don't want to do this anymore. And maybe looks for someone to buy it and that doesn't happen. And so they close just like. Any store, restaurant, bar, any other type of business. But again, it just becomes lumped in with this craft beer downtrend. Also, like I mentioned, I really think that A lot of it is that discovery phase, like for so many years, 12 to 15 years, people were gobbling up everything they could about craft beer. They were finding new craft beers, new styles, people were inventing new styles, hazies and high ABV stouts. And then I think we've settled into a little bit of like, well, what else is there to invent? And maybe the customer is settling into quality and not just a scattershot approach. So if breweries are brewing really good beer and have a reputation for brewing good beer, then maybe they might, they might be more likely to survive day to day. And then, as you mentioned before, you've got to offer. Something a little different in your tap rooms. You know, I've seen Eureka Heights or another brewery in town, just partnered with a pinball organization to put in a ton of pinball machines there. That's a draw. They're always doing programming. New Magnolia is a small brewery, a warehouse style brewery in town. They're introducing pickleball at the brewery. And so

Jonathan: 29:35

As is everyone else.

Lennie: 29:37

yeah, right. But it's the first time I've seen a brewery actually do it. I've seen bars, other organizations do it, but I've seen one from a brewery yet. But it is about creating a total experience for people. It's not just good beer. But what are the other events that you're involved in? How are you involved in the community? What is your reputation? Everybody knows everybody's reputations these days too. And so that's why it's more than just doing those things. But honestly, if you get stuck with a bad beer label at some point. Then that is going to affect because I think people were willing to accept quote, unquote, bad beer, whatever that means to different people for a little while when they were discovering what good beer is now, there's so many options so many that have stuck around that they're less likely to take a chance on something. If they know I got a 50 50 shot here, whether it's going to be carbonated or sour or you know, oxidized or whatever these things are so I might as well just stick with what I know. And I think that has been a good thing for us at St Arnold is that we have put quality at the very, very top, we have people that are tasting our beers daily to make sure that they're on point. And. If you get a bad reputation, whether in the community or for beer, then that's really going to bite you.

Jonathan: 31:10

Yeah. And I think you can relate that to just about any other type of service business, certainly in the hospitality industry where, you know, if you are not consistent and I think one of the biggest buzzwords for any type of hospitality business. Has to be consistency because customers who find you and then like you want to come back because they know what they're going to get. And certainly they'll branch out and try new things periodically. But my wife and I all the time talk about consistency. Why do we continue to go back to certain places? Well, it's consistent. And so. You can have all the other bells and whistles, which are great, and provide different experiences. But at the root of all of it, you've got to have a good product. That is the base. That, that is your foundation. You've got to have a good product. And once you have that, you can build on it and do other things and, and add to the experience. But if you can't be consistent and provide a good product, eventually folks who come and try it, for whatever reason, they'll fade away. And so that consistency, which we know St. Arnold, while it continues to introduce new products and fun, new things all the time, there is a base level of consistency, which has lasted for a long, long time. And as you say, that, that comes from a focus on quality and quality control. So you've obviously mastered that aspect of, of the business. And I wanted to, I wanted to use that as kind of a segue into one of our final questions and final topics, which is what do you consider to be some of the biggest challenges that you still face as you go forward in the industry?

Lennie: 33:02

So One thing I was really worried about just really a few months ago. And I'm less worried now. So it's, it is a challenge still, but I feel a little more optimistic was event participation. It seemed like for a little bit, we would throw out events and some people would show up. But there were so many events and, you know, it just wasn't resonating with people like it had. And I think a lot of that was a little bit of COVID hangover that you, you mentioned. But this spring has really made me a little more optimistic on that. We had a really great St. Patrick's day. We've had some good, really good other events here. For a little while, the only thing that seemed to resonate really well, still was ticketed experiential events. Like we're talking about that were even a little higher dollar. Beer dinners, barrel room tastings, those were still selling out really well. But what wasn't seemingly to do as well as just like the free parties or events at the beer garden that everybody can come to and announce date, but those have changed recently. So I don't know if it's that. People are now bored of not doing those things maybe, which I kind of thought, well, maybe with COVID, everybody took a pause on things and evaluated what they wanted to do and what they didn't want to do. And those were things that they didn't want to do. And it was big public events. But that seems to be changing a little bit. So maybe they took a pause on those and are getting back into them.

Jonathan: 34:49

Yeah, so I would question then whether some of the other changes in the Houston beer landscape in terms of some closures and, you know, other news about local breweries and things like that maybe, you know, have consolidated things a little bit and folks who had been spread thin, right, because there may have been a level of saturation in the local market. Maybe that's thinning out a little bit. And there's a little bit more of that contraction coming into the, to the local scene, I guess that sort of remains to be seen because as I alluded to earlier, I am aware of at least a couple of, of planned new openings of of additional breweries, maybe more in the suburbs, but still generally in the Houston market. But I would imagine that there is still time for figuring that out and seeing, you know, what continues to work and, and what may still be challenging. You know, a lot of people that we've spoken with have talked about labor issues. Does that, does that affect you and in similar ways as other elements of the hospitality business or are you more immune to that because of your reputation and longevity? Absolutely.

Lennie: 36:02

I have to say we, we've, we've, Been able to do a pretty good job with, you know, you're never fully staffed I'm down a person in my department, but we're looking at kind of add another type of role. And, you know, I hear on the kitchen side that they're short staffed, but I think those are the ebbs and flows. And that was 2019 as well as 2021 as well as 2024 and beyond and whatever. But I think we've been a little insulated from that, the severe staffing shortages. Thankfully, I maybe it's the way we treat people. We still have a good amount of employees that have been with the beer garden since day one or very shortly after day one, which is the beer garden now is almost six years old. A lot of our managers have been here for multiple years. We were able to keep during COVID a lot of our, most of our managers on staff. And even when we had to let, you know, day to day servers and bartenders go, we were able to bring a lot of them back, which was really gratifying. So that hasn't been as much of a challenge as it has been for other people.

Jonathan: 37:19

Oh, that's great. You're, you're certainly fortunate, but you know, those things that you've talked about in terms of treating people properly and focusing on quality and all of those elements to your business you know, rewards you in those ways in that you are able to attract good talent because folks know what they're going to get when, when they go to work there. And, and, So I want to touch very briefly on something you brought up. You mentioned that you're currently the chair of the Craft Brewers Guild for the state of Texas. You have been involved in other organizations over the years. Obviously, you know, St. Arnold is a fantastic member of the Houston Hospitality Alliance. I wanted to just kind of get your thoughts on the role of and the importance of organizations like that for the hospitality industry in general and why you and St. Arnold in particular see those as beneficial and necessary in the hospitality landscape.

Lennie: 38:23

Yeah. So real quick on the Texas Crap Brewers Guild, we were founding members of that organization and it really was founded to help fix really terrible beer laws in Texas. And it's been a David and Goliath type story over the years of fighting large beer interests that were not designed at all to help small business. And I think that that carries over. Into what you're doing there and other organizations as well. Is that we are all small businesses. And again, St. Arnold is still a small business, even though you can find us in Kroger and HEB in the state of Texas. We are still very much a small business especially when you compare it to the interests that we're fighting against, and I think what you all are doing, the TRA. The distiller's lobby, whoever that is I think lobby has a bad connotation, but when it's groups of small businesses banding together to make their industry better or just protect themselves or have equal rights It is not a bad thing. We hire a lobbyist through the Texas Craft Brewers Guild and it's the best money we spend. And now that a lot of the the boxes have been checked on legislation that we want to change right now. Yeah, we're still attacking, but it's in a defensive position as well. Because there, as soon as you let up, there are other interests that are going to be standing right there to try to roll those rights back if it costs them a penny. I think with the The Texas Craft Brewers Guild. We kind of are fine with everybody succeeding, but that's not the case with a lot of the bigger interests. So if you all with the Houston Hospitality Alliance are groups of small businesses banding together to make sure you're getting the proper notice in national media, or it isn't just giant chains that people are visiting When they're visiting Houston, not that there's anything wrong with those, it gives a voice to the smaller businesses that they wouldn't have access to. Otherwise, a small mom and pop restaurant or organization in the heights is not going to be able to afford a lobbyist or go on a hill walk or You know, be on podcasts, but as an organization, if everybody's banning together, that's what makes the voice the loudest. And so we'll be discussing this in our board meeting tomorrow for the guild. And I know you guys are discussing very similar things day in and day out. How do you get everybody together to kind of speak one language?

Jonathan: 41:09

Sure. And, and we talk a lot internally in the Houston Hospitality Alliance about our value propositions. And a lot of it has to just do with connection, right? Being the place where hospitality businesses in Houston can come together and figure out how they can help each other, What issues need to be addressed, et cetera. And it's not always political. And there are other elements to that as well, in terms of education and promotion. And we've actually changed one of our value propositions, not to be, to be not just advocacy, but advocacy and influence, because when you use the term advocacy, everybody always just thinks political, but to us, There are opportunities to influence other elements of business or tourism or whatever it might be that will benefit the local Houston hospitality industry. And it's not always just political or hiring a lobbyist or, or going to visit your elected officials. All of that is important, but we are hopeful that we can influence in other ways that ultimately benefit the business and not only our members, but everybody involved in the Houston hospitality industry which we know is vast and exciting and diverse and fantastic in many ways. So

Lennie: 42:33

example

Jonathan: 42:34

yeah, please, please.

Lennie: 42:36

political is something that we're doing with the guild. Everybody knows about the eclipse coming up. There's a lot of breweries in the Texas Hill country, especially that are doing events around the eclipse. And so the guild has kind of compiled those events and is sending them out to media. And on social media, but to, to regular media as well as a group. And so we're getting lists and mentions and media attention as look at these five breweries that are throwing eclipse related events. Now, if it was just one brewery doing it, they may not be small enough or have the resources to, you know, have media outreach or amplify that message. But it's such a, you know, Tiny little example, but it's certainly applicable what you're doing, you know, as well where it just makes everybody's voices louder. So when somebody is visiting and looking up, where do I go to watch the eclipse in the Texas Hill country? Those lists are appearing. And so then they can make their choice of which place they want to go to.

Jonathan: 43:41

Yeah, no, that's fantastic, because it really does illustrate the point that not everything is a massive political issue where you've got to go lobby Congress. It can be hyper local, and it can be a short term issue or short term event, whatever it might be but it certainly makes a difference to those entities that are involved, and those are the things that they remember. And Truthfully, that's what gives them the value proposition. That is the value proposition of becoming a member of whatever organization it might be. Sometimes the results are not always tangible, but they know that there's work being done on their behalf which helps not only them, but the industry overall. So, okay, we are reaching the conclusion, which means that we are coming to our. Favorite three questions. I am speaking with Lenny Ambrose, chief marketing officer at St. Arnold Brewery in Houston and Lenny, question number one, if you could drop the hat tomorrow and go anywhere, what is your favorite travel destination and why?

Lennie: 44:52

Okay. So I'm going to hedge this a little bit. Is it I could go anywhere or the thing that I like to do the most when we travel?

Jonathan: 45:03

Oh, are those two different things?

Lennie: 45:06

Well, so If it's I could go anywhere and money is not an issue, then I might, I would probably pick somewhere outside of the U. S. But if it's just my wife and I have six hours and what do we do? It would be find some place to hike. And then go to a brewery tap room immediately after the hike. So something in nature and then something with beer right after the hike.

Jonathan: 45:35

That makes perfect sense.

Lennie: 45:37

That can be even in town at Memorial park. Has some great hiking trails. Shockingly, look into it if you don't know, and there's breweries right around that area. So that could be going up to the Sam Houston National Forest, or it could be right here inside the loop

Jonathan: 45:57

or the Swiss Alps for that, for that matter.

Lennie: 45:59

with the helps. Absolutely. They have, they have beer there too. Yeah, you're right.

Jonathan: 46:04

Okay. Question number two for folks who may not have come to Houston in the past, whether they're coming here for tourism related, business related issues, whatever it is, what would you say is the best reason? What is the best part about coming to Houston?

Lennie: 46:26

Again, I'm going to add a little color to this. I think Houston is a interesting town in that we don't have. The Golden Gate Bridge, or 6th Street in Austin, or the Riverwalk in San Antonio, or Beale Street in Memphis, there is not this, like, absolutely defined place that you have to go when you're here and take a picture in front of X. I think that is a challenging thing, a little bit, maybe something for your organization in that way. Something you probably talk about, but I think it means it's a great thing about Houston as well, that there isn't some box that you have to check every time everybody comes to Houston. It really is talking to a local and getting their recommendation on what their favorite thing is here in town is that. You know, going to Chinatown to do a dumpling crawl in that area. Is it going to someplace like the Heights and hopping around the really cool, like dive bars on the white Oak area that you have, and maybe you get crawfish. And then right next door, you get pho, and then right next door to that you have a really good cocktail made, you know, down the street. Is it something like that and spend a day? Is it going to the Houston Dew and having a local, locally made beer on tap? I think that because we don't have the Eiffel Tower in Houston, then it, you know, People are able to kind of spread out their experience and really personalize it.

Jonathan: 48:03

That's fantastic. Yeah, I, I totally agree with you. And we talk all the time about the incredible diversity of things to do in Houston, particularly with regard to the hospitality industry. And that is truly one of our strengths here in town. So I, I would definitely agree with you. So last question for you, Lenny Ambrose. What would you say is the most important thing that you've learned in your business career? Something that you would pass along to the next generation of hospitality industry professionals? Any nugget of, of advice could be a warning could be something special. But what, what would you say to somebody who says, I want to follow in your footsteps? What should they do? Thank you.

Lennie: 48:50

Gonna, I'm not gonna break any news now with this based on our conversation, but it really is plug into what is immediately around you and then work out from there. You know, find your, your neighbors, find the organizations that are The closest to you. And once you kind of have that on lock a little bit, I mean, I guess you never do because it's always changing. So you have to keep cultivating that. Then you can move out and continue to expand your circle of influence within your community. If the regulars around you, whether that's again, a museum, a boutique a park, you're running a park, barbecue restaurant. If the people immediately around you don't like you and aren't at least semi regulars to your, your business, then forget about, you know, eight miles away or 10 miles or 100 miles. You're, you're never going to get those people, but if you can bring in your own community into your community, then that is a win. And you have to, can never lose sight about who is closest to you and responding to their needs and wants and delivering them quality on a day to day basis.

Jonathan: 50:15

I think that's fantastic advice. And I think that's been very effective obviously for you and for St. Arnold Brewery over the years. So we certainly appreciate those thoughts. So many thanks today to my guest, Lenny Ambrose, Chief Marketing Officer at St. Arnold Brewery. And thanks to the Houston Hospitality Alliance for continuing to connect, educate, promote, and advocate on behalf of the entire Houston hospitality community. Get more information on the HHA at www.houstonhospitalityalliance.com. Please join us next time as we continue to explore the people and the businesses behind Houston's amazing and diverse hospitality industry.