Intro: 0:05

Welcome to the business of Houston Hospitality, where we visit with and learn from the people behind Houston's vibrant and diverse hospitality industry. Each week we speak with owners and operators of restaurants, hotels, venues, attractions, museums, theaters, and more. Please welcome your host, president of the Houston Hospitality Alliance and founder of Convive Hospitality Consultant, Jonathan Horowitz.

Jonathan: 0:34

greetings from Houston. This is the business of Houston hospitality. I am your host, Jonathan Horowitz. And today I am going to be speaking with chef David Cordua from Cordua catering and the Limbar restaurant at the Ion in Midtown Houston. As always, we'll talk about David's history in Houston, how his business is doing and what chef David thinks about Houston's hospitality industry and its future. Welcome to the show. Chef David Cordova. Thank you for being here.

David: 1:05

Thanks, Jonathan. Great to be with you

Jonathan: 1:07

Yeah. So, you know, your name evokes all kinds of thoughts and history and experience and wonderful things in the Houston restaurant industry. So I really want to start from the beginning particularly with your family and your family's, you know, Entry into an impact on the Houston restaurant scene. So kind of take us, take us from the beginning, how the family got involved and then how you more specifically, how you got involved in, in kind of getting to where you are now.

David: 1:47

for sure. Thank you. So my parents both came from from Nicaragua in the late seventies to go to Texas A and M. As a big agricultural nation. Most Nicaraguans come to college in the U. S. to either A& M or LSU. It just so happened that their third, their third year of college, the Nicaraguan revolution started. My, my dad's side of the family had ancestry in Galveston and my, my mom's side of the family was my grandfather was the vice president of the country at the time. So, so they had to flee the country. as refugees. And my dad's side settled in, in Meyerland on, on Limbar Street. I was born and raised on that street. My parents were buried on that street. And in the mid eighties, My dad's shipping business company sold and he was without a job for, for a year or two. And his, his family had a restaurant in Managua that specialized in, in Nicaraguan Churrasco. Cooking was a passion of, of his mother. It was a passion of his, and he considered opening a Nicaraguan chain from Miami. Carlos ranchos in Houston at the time, visited with them and decided to branch out on his own and what he did which was revolutionary at the time. He hired some French trained chefs and that combination of. and South American cuisine with French technique created this new cuisine, which at the time was called Nuevo Nuevo Latino. And it was happening in, in, in Miami with a handful of, of Cuban and Central American chefs and with with my dad here in, in Houston. And it was revolutionary at the time because. You know, the only Latin cuisine really that anyone knew was, was, was Mexican and Tex Mex. So the first, the first Logan was further south than you've ever been before.

Jonathan: 4:01

No, that's great. Very creative. Was, was your dad involved in the restaurant business back in Nicaragua or was it just more of a hobby?

David: 4:10

No, it was, it was his uncle's restaurant. And, and, and my, my grandmother the one who moved to Limbaugh Street was a passionate, passionate, an excellent cook who, who, you know, learned lots of different cuisines. And so they ate, they ate very well in my, in my dad's house. And, and they had very much a food culture in their home.

Jonathan: 4:33

So what around what year was that where your dad kind of got things going here in Houston?

David: 4:39

They opened the first Tarascos in 1988,

Jonathan: 4:42

88. Okay. Yeah. So that was the beginning of it all. And at that point you're how old

David: 4:50

six, and I, and I, and I remember opening day

Jonathan: 4:54

do you really?

David: 4:55

Yeah, I remember opening day at the Churrasco's on on Bissonnette. I remember the table I sat at you know, kind of kind of the buzz and energy was a really cool restaurant and that they had like two levels and there was a kind of balcony seating all around it and then a main dining room floor. And I was at the first. I was at the first table on the, on the lower level. And yeah,

Jonathan: 5:22

years old.

David: 5:23

at six years old and I, you know, would be there until sometimes midnight, you know, asleep with two chairs pushed together. Would go there after school with my sisters almost, almost every day. We had kind of a standard order, which was grilled chicken and a sherry cream sauce and a Shirley Temple. And we'd do our homework at the bar. So I was a restaurant brat.

Jonathan: 5:46

That's awesome. So where was that on Bissonette in Houston?

David: 5:49

Next to Westwood mall.

Jonathan: 5:52

Westwood. Okay.

David: 5:54

and 59.

Jonathan: 5:55

So the Southwest side of town,

David: 5:59

Not too far from like Sharpstown.

Jonathan: 6:00

right, right. And so that obviously kind of kicked things off for your family and the restaurant business here in Houston, which obviously has not slowed down at its, at its most, how many locations of churros goes were there in Houston?

David: 6:17

All, all concepts together. We had eight locations up until 2015. And a catering, a catering company.

Jonathan: 6:28

Right, right. Yeah. Because the catering company has been going for a while. Yeah, and we we have certainly enjoyed taking advantage of that locally here over the years. And then most recently, just last week for the Houston Hospitality Alliance member mixer, which was great. So and it was, it was even more special because your dad was there on site. overseeing the catering, which was great. We we, we were privileged to have him there. And I know it was a busy week for you leading into a holiday weekend. So I'm very happy to hear that you all were, were that busy last week.

David: 7:03

Yeah. I think everyone was trying to squeeze everything in before the holiday and summer officially kicked in a of graduation. grateful for it.

Jonathan: 7:13

Yeah. No, that's great. So, you know, you were talking about how at six years old you were part of the business as it was getting going in, in, in Houston at Churascos. Did you always know that you personally were going to be involved in the business or, or how did you evolve into the chef that you are now?

David: 7:35

Oh, heck, heck. No, I want, I wanted nothing to do with it. I, I saw how, how hard my parents worked and you know, the, the, the long hours and my, my first, you know, job in the, in the restaurant when I was 15 was, was a punishment. I was, I was sent to the dish pit for a, for an entire summer. But I ended up working, you know, the different stations in the kitchen and you know, kind of, kind of fell in love with the kitchen culture. At that point, the, you know, the adrenaline of it, the camaraderie, the, the satisfaction of like of getting through a really good shift. So yeah, I did start working in the restaurants until I was 15. And when I moved to California for undergrad I got back in the kitchen. Working for the Valencia Group under Chef Mercer Moore in San Jose and Santana Road.

Jonathan: 8:31

That's great. So you were out there for undergrad. Did you then, did you, did you ever go specifically to culinary school?

David: 8:38

I did, yeah, I did four three and a half years to finish a little early undergrad and then moved to Paris and got my culinary degree at the Cordon Bleu in Paris, where I worked for about two years.

Jonathan: 8:53

Gotcha. Gotcha. And then did you, did you live and work anywhere else in the world before coming back to Houston and getting, getting involved here?

David: 9:02

I did a lot of backpacking

Jonathan: 9:03

That's great.

David: 9:04

backpack island Europe. I, I played music most, most of my life. So I, I played music in, in Cuba for a while. So travel really is what fed my love of, of food per personally. Just with food being a universal language. And, you know, I, I found, I, I found a lot of. similarities and satisfaction that I got playing music I found in food. Not just the universality of it, but, you know, finding, finding harmony and not, not ever being satisfied with, with dissonance and like almost being uncomfortable until things work well

Jonathan: 9:50

I don't think I knew that you were a musician as well. What, what do you play?

David: 9:56

I play guitar bass, some drums. I can fake it to piano, but I was lead, I was, I was lead vocals for my high school band, you know, starting from when I was 15 and, and played in bands up until 25. But my dad would take our catering van and load us up and we would actually, you know, go to gigs around, around town when we were very underage to be playing in bars.

Jonathan: 10:21

That's very cool. Do you still play much anymore? I know how busy you are, but do you get, do you get a chance to scratch the musical itch?

David: 10:28

I, I, I do, I mean, at, at home for my daughter and, and, you know, we, we, we started LIMBAR with. with a, with a robust jazz program. So I always wanted music to be at the, at the forefront at this location.

Jonathan: 10:44

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about kind of where you are now. And, and just so we can recalibrate here, we are talking with chef David Cordua, who currently runs the Limbar restaurant in Midtown Houston in the ION building which is now what about a year and a half old. Is that right, chef? Exactly. A year and a half old. So at some point the churros goes business moved on. And then you, you've been involved with the catering and your dad is involved in that. I know. But how, tell us a little bit about how the limb bar came to be.

David: 11:22

Yeah. So in in 2018 we were essentially pushed out of our of, of our company by, by some, some investors who decided they didn't need chefs anymore, they had everything that they needed. So my dad and I were on our own and doing catering exclusively, which was really where I got to flex the most in our, in our former group. That's what, where I did a lot of our research and development. With custom menus. And we're really good at that. We're really good at you know, not just being lithographs, you know, cookie cutter same thing for everyone all the time, which can be, you know, very, very profitable and very efficient. But I think what I've always done best is, is listen to, to guests and have. The food and many that we create be not just reflective of us and our experience, but reflective of of them as well. So it's really satisfying to just focus on catering for five for five years. However, the the ion opportunity arose. Rice University was doing this. Innovation district in in Midtown. I happen to be a resident of Midtown for for 12 years, so really familiar with the market and gave me a sense of comfort. Originally, they had asked me to do a breakfast concept, and after walking the space, our broker with Blue Ox Burdett Huffman said, Wait a minute. I went to a Chase Bank event at your place here in Midtown, and you threw a great party. How do you feel about opening the bar here for, for the and I said, 100 percent during, during, this was In 2020 in the middle of COVID. And I really felt that at the time, you know, things had to be a commodity. The fine dining market had shrunk to almost nothing in the catering market had shrunk to almost nothing. And what was really working there were neighborhood spots that, you know, people were getting there. Their Tex Mex fix their coffee, pizza, like things that you were going to use once a week. And the idea was to be kind of the hotel lobby lounge bar for, for the ION building. And that's where the LIMBAR came about the ION building being the historic Sears building. I wanted to pay tribute to our roots in the city. And that's why it's called LIMBAR, which is the street that my family got its start. In Houston.

Jonathan: 14:04

Yeah. So talk a little bit about the concept itself, the, the style of food, obviously you know, being in the building and, and having gone to a, a number of the fantastic dinners that you all produce there. And having been there for lunch, I know, you know, the interior itself is very unique beautifully designed and styled, but, but it all has. A purpose and a meaning behind it. Tell us a little bit about why it's designed the way it is and a little bit about the food that y'all are doing there now.

David: 14:36

Yeah, thanks. So it being my my grandparents house. I wanted it to feel very much like you're dining in someone's living room, like you're in someone's home. Kind of, I also kind of wanted to contrast the industrial high tech feeling of the building with something that was a little, you know, warmer, and cozy. The you know, the interior has a lot of nods to grandmothers and childhood. The direction that I gave, you know, the designer Jen Braverman, who was my babysitter at the

Jonathan: 15:14

Oh, really?

David: 15:16

bar.

Jonathan: 15:16

I did not know that.

David: 15:17

So she, she knew the house well, like knew the color of the carpets, the wood paneling. And, and we went through all these textures, but just wanted to feel like you're out of like a hip, hip grandmother's house. And, and, and people get that. They're like, this feels like a really good house party. Or often people ask me, you know, you know, how many hotel rooms are upstairs? Cause they think they're, they're in a hotel lobby lounge. And I'm like mission

Jonathan: 15:44

that. Yeah, I can. I can get that feel. It's kind of got that cool vibe that you would expect from sort of that hipster ish sort of hotel, you

David: 15:52

hotel lobby,

Jonathan: 15:54

yeah, yeah.

David: 15:55

which are, which are some of my favorite bars. Right. Great. Great things happen in hotel lobby bars.

Jonathan: 16:03

And

David: 16:03

Well, and, and the The cuisine you know, on Limbaugh Street, it was, it was our family where Churrasco's, America's Amazon Grill and Artista came from and a few, a few houses down was the Druby family that had a chain of Lebanese bakeries and delis. And so I grew up eating Lebanese as, as much as I did. Latin food. My wife happens to be Mexican Lebanese, so we eat, you know, Middle Eastern food as much as Mexican and South American food. So it's, it's both, you know, part of the story of Limbar Street, but also the way that we eat now.

Jonathan: 16:46

yeah, no, that's fantastic that you're able to combine all of those elements and the, and the historical and the traditional and the family and all of the cuisines. And it, it really does. Come together beautifully. I mean, it's, it's a wonderful spot. And it's going to be very interesting to see how it evolves and develops as everything gets built up around it, right? Where we're in, in the ion building and that area of town in general is really experiencing growth and there's going to be a lot of energy and, you know, resources put into it. So I think I think the future will be very interesting, you know, in, in, in how that develops and evolves.

David: 17:28

For the long haul. I still really believe in what Rice is doing. It's, it's the story is that it was a response to Houston not getting the Amazon

Jonathan: 17:39

yes,

David: 17:40

that went to Austin. But I mean, the, the, the energy of all these startups and this technological. Innovation. I mean, it's just excited to be around. I told people I feel like I went back to college

Jonathan: 17:52

yeah, yeah. And that's, that's part of the reason why we decided to office here too, just because the energy is so great. It's, I mean, it's, it's really, it's, it's a cool place to come every day just because there's always something going on and there's always interesting people walking around. And there's always, you know, there's always something to learn, which is, which is really cool. So yeah.

David: 18:11

and it happened sort of good job. It happened. It happened at a time when people weren't even meeting face to face. You know, the ion opened just as You know, people were going back, back to work. And so it was, it was such a breath of fresh, fresh air to like have these people come together, want to network, want to collaborate. It was, it was really buzzy.

Jonathan: 18:36

Yeah. And so we know that, that from experience over the past couple of years, there's been sort of a dichotomy where you've had people pent up for so long and they were craving, you know, the, the interactions with other people and wanting to, to get back to routines and some semblance of normalcy and all of those things. But on the flip side. We've also seen that the consumer has changed. The way people go to work has changed. There's more remote working and hybrid working. And there aren't so many people back in the downtown office buildings and all of these other things that have literally changed the industry. Entirely in the span of just a few years. So I want, I want to use that as a segue to talk a little bit about, you know, the hospitality industry in Houston generally, but then obviously from your perspective, more specifically the restaurant industry in Houston. And we are talking with chef David Cordua of the limb bar in Midtown Houston. And, you know, chef, obviously you have been involved in the industry in Houston, essentially your entire life. And you have seen it change and grow and expand and get national recognition and international recognition. And I'm curious, I'd like to take it from a high level to a, to a more specific level, but overall, you know, how have you seen it change? How have you seen it evolve? What, what has your personal experience been as Houston's restaurant industry has really grown up and blown up?

David: 20:13

Yeah, I think, I think you're absolutely right. It's. It's, it's changed a lot in, in that when, I moved back to Houston in 2007 I think Houston for what, what it felt like at, at the time was coming into its, its own identity that, that Houston had, had on its own, its own specific cuisine specifically, you know, from the Gulf Coast, reflective of all the, the ethnic diversity that we have and, and celebrating. The things that we grew up eating that most people in the United States. Have to travel very far to to experience. So that was that was really cool. You know, in in kind of the early 2000 and tens when like Houston ease to use Chris Shepard's term cuisine was happening and fusion fusion was a bad word in in the nineties and was was used by critics as as, as someone that was confused or just slapping different things together. Whereas in Houston, that's, that's actually how we, how we eat. And it's, it's It's the most natural thing in the world. What I've seen, what I've seen change over, over the years because I think in part of the saturation of the market and, and how many the abundance of, of restaurants and options and, and openings on, on a weekly basis that there are, is that, you know, people are getting very neighborhood specific. And catering specifically to that little micro market that they're, that they're in. And it gives, it gives chefs and restauranteurs a lot of freedom in that regard. Cause they're not just putting a steakhouse, a Tex Mex, an Italian. You can create something that is Customized to, to that market at that specific time and to a specific demographic. Yeah.

Jonathan: 22:20

You know, one of the biggest pluses in my opinion, obviously in Houston is just its overall diversity, right? You've got 50, 60 cuisines, 70 some odd languages spoken. It's extremely international cosmopolitan. But you know, at the same time it's massive, it's huge. And so not only do you have Different areas of town, but as you say, there are sub neighborhoods within those general areas and the suburbs and, you know, just it's incredible breadth and depth and it's still growing, right? We know that, I mean, Houston overall is still growing. People are coming here from all over the country, all over the world. And particularly now. We're seeing a huge influx of restauranteurs and hoteliers and other developers who are coming in from other parts of the country because they recognize Houston's diversity, its continued growth and the, and the demand that's still here. And, and, you know, fortunately, I guess if there's any silver lining that, you know, came through the, the COVID years as a city economically, we fared better than most other large cities in the country. It wasn't great and we're still kind of in recovery mode, but I think overall, you know, history will show that we fared better generally through the COVID years. And so now we're seeing this influx of, money in development coming in from other parts of the country. And I'm curious to get your perspective on that because at the same time that we're seeing all these openings like weekly, you know, all over the place, all over town, we're seeing a lot of closures and, you know, to some extent that reflects the continuing struggles from recovery from COVID. But you know, how do you see that as a restaurateur? Is that, is it scary? How, how does that make you feel when you see the influx of the outsiders coming at the outsiders? I say that like it's terrible, but it's, there, there are folks coming from, from all other areas wanting to be here, but it seems to me that, It's putting a heck of a lot of pressure and squeezing out some of the, the local, maybe smaller independents that have been around for a while.

David: 24:45

We just, we just had mother's day and Memorial day. Right. And famously, this is when a lot of places pull, pull the plug. They've just been waiting for that, that last bit of revenue before the long, the long dry summer. You see, you see the same, you see the same in, in January. I mean, it, it is, I think it's more reflective of the saturation. Of the restaurant market in Houston. We kind of, I like to call it the Thanos snap during COVID where, you know, wiped out about half, half of the restaurants and things got a little bit more Like there was, there was not, not as much competition, but we're, we're way beyond 2019 numbers in terms of the number of restaurants and the number of, of openings which As an operator, it's, it is, it is challenging. Because it often feels like you're only as good as you are new. And you know, you're, it's almost, it's almost like being a Broadway show or like a movie premiere. Cause people on to the next. There's it's, it's usually the women, women, women go try restaurants first.

Jonathan: 25:59

Interesting.

David: 26:00

They'll, they'll, they'll all go and then they'll bring the guys. later, but you know, I know, I know some ladies that they will only go to a restaurant if it's, if it's a week or two new, and they're always on top of the latest opening. So how do you combat that? And, and the way, the way to combat that is by being neighborhood focused, right? Going back to what I was saying, when you, when you, when you're, when your goal is to have repeat business of, of people that are shopping with you. On a, on a weekly basis, as opposed to only for anniversaries, birthdays and, and special occasions. I mean, that's, that's the way most of us shop. I mean, you're, you know, there's certain restaurants that you're going to hit up or a coffee shop or, or, you know. A bar or your pizza joint or your Tex Mex place and and that's that's the way to go against that needing to be the hot new thing all the time is just take care of your neighborhood. Take care of the people around you.

Jonathan: 27:11

Yeah. So I guess I would go back to your new opening of a theater analogy to where obviously when something splashy. It hits the market, right? Everybody's going to go try it out. But then the ultimate goal is to become, you know, the cats or the phantom of the opera, you know, that, that sticks around for 30

David: 27:31

Ain't it?

Jonathan: 27:32

Yeah. And, and, and to your point, you have to be ingrained in the neighborhood, right? You've got to, you've got to become that anchor and that go to place in the neighborhood in order to become the cats and the phantom of the opera that everybody wants to keep going to year after year and not be the flash in the pan.

David: 27:51

Ne NFA on navigation is, is is Cats,

Jonathan: 27:54

Yeah. Yeah.

David: 27:55

it's, it, it caters two people going to the ballpark, two people coming from downtown, two people in the ne in the neighborhood. And they, they know what they are and they're just hitting it on the bell ev every single time. And that's, that's easier said than done. Because it means you have to be very attuned to your guests. You know, knowing not to raise prices when everyone else is raising prices knowing what specific offerings to have, and it's not trying to be everything to everyone but almost being hyper specific in, in your offering.

Jonathan: 28:37

Yeah, I would imagine that continues to be a challenge where you're trying to find that sweet spot where you can do cool things, be innovative, but not turn people off and you want to be able to still give them what they want to be able to again, establish that repeat customer and that continuity I, I would be curious to know from you what your, what you think your biggest challenges are right now. And I know you weren't operating limbar obviously pre COVID, but can you compare pre COVID what were typically the biggest challenges and is it the same now or is it different based on the different economic climate? The way the consumer is different. I mean, can, can you make those comparisons or just, you know, what, what are your current biggest challenges?

David: 29:32

Well, currently I think our challenge is, is very specific in that we're in what I would say an emerging micro market in, in the city. So there's still a lot of awareness work that we need to do. The building itself has a lot of awareness that it needs. Just to be blatantly obvious that it's a commercial building open to the public and not just an extension of rice or not just an office building. So those are, those are the specific challenges that, that we have. But prior, prior to COVID and in, in my former restaurant group, it is. You know, finding that sweet spot, like you said, of not alienating your regular customers, but also somehow staying relevant. I, that, that was in my, you know, 12, 14 years in my former group. That was, that was the biggest challenge was, You know, if you, if you don't, if you don't change, you know, you're, you're going to get, you're going to get smoked and left behind by, by everything happening around you. But how, however, I would find myself just kind of rotating this like lower 20, 30 percent of the menu constantly. Cause we used the philosophy that. If it doesn't sell, it's out. And it was, it was just a very democratic way of, of running our, our, our menu program.

Jonathan: 31:05

So one of the things that I know, having, having talked to a lot of folks in the industry is, you know, the impact of the advancements in technology and how it has changed the restaurant industry specifically. And, and by that, I mean, the adoption of the third party delivery services and the online orderings and, you know, What, what I perceive to be a, a consumer demand for convenience and speed. Obviously we saw a lot of the rise in, in fast casual, you know, types of concepts, how do you see that? Particularly technology impacting your business or the more traditional dining type restaurants, like full service restaurants like yours. Because it seems like the industry as a whole advanced dramatically in technology in just a few short years. Particularly in industry that's slow to evolve. I think, I think the COVID years really kind of pushed the technology piece of that forward. How has that impacted you if at all?

David: 32:13

Well, it's, it's, it's liberated some restaurants that, you know, have size restrictions, parking restrictions. You know, the, the concept of a, of a ghost kitchen and having multiple Concepts within one kitchen or something unheard of you know, three or four years ago, which, which is now, you know, pretty, pretty commonplace as, as kind of an alternative rev revenue source for, for us being kind of a more vibey place, you know, the experience of being there is, is. Is a lot of it. And so we still have a lot of work to do in terms of maximizing our, our potential for, for to go and take out but it's, it's here to stay. It's here to stay. Like, like you said at the beginning, you know, people are working remote. People are used to food being delivered at home and, and that's not going away pandemic or no pandemic. So, I mean, restaurant operators you know, just, just have to adjust. But on the, on the other end, and I tend to lean this way, there's, there's no, there's no replacement for the experience of, of being in, in a restaurant. With, with people that you love, face-to-face. And I don't think that's ever gonna go away. I don't think that's ever gonna go away. It's just there's, there's just other tools in the, in the tool belt for operators on the, on the data side. We are a lot more equipped to, to have realtime information. And there's just. There's kind of no excuse anymore, not to, not to know your food costs, not to know, you know, where, where your sales are headed, not, not to know your, your labor costs on, on any given week. So it's, it's, we're just better, we're just better equipped and have a larger arsenal. It's just not a one size fits all for, for everyone. It's, you have to pick. You have to choose your weapons wisely.

Jonathan: 34:20

Yeah. And that, that goes to the business of running the business, right? I mean, I get asked all the time and in my various roles, Why the failure rate for restaurants is always so high and a lot of people think, oh, it's the location or it's your marketing or, or whatever. And, you know, to me, historically, I've always felt there are two primary reasons for. Restaurant failure and one is just being undercapitalized, right? Not fully appreciating how damn expensive it is and how difficult it is to, to maintain the financial side of it. But the, the second one, which to me follows closely behind. Is just not fully appreciating how to run a business as a business where you can be the best bartender or you can be the best chef. You could have a great location, all of these wonderful things. You could have great marketing. But if you don't know how to balance a balance sheet or run a P& L and understand labor and running the business as a business. Same thing. You could be the best lawyer, you could be the best doctor, you could be the best whatever, you know, air conditioning guy and got your air condition, air conditioning business. If you don't know how to run the business and the numbers of it, chances are, you're not going to make it. So I, you know, I, I'm, I'm curious to get your thoughts on not only the perception of, of the overall failure rate, but just kind of what you've seen in your experiences about running a business, not just a restaurant.

David: 35:52

You're absolutely, you're absolutely right. It's, it's, it's management stupid. Right. And I mean, everything comes down to management and you know, you, you can, you can, can only fix things by increasing sales. So, so much at the end of the day, things come down to, you know, a cost equation. That being said, it's a lot easier to manage a restaurant that has an overwhelming demand and incredible sales. You just have to be a lot more creative when. sales aren't there. I will say I do think still it, it is easier to grow sales by 10, 000 a week than to cut costs by 10, 000 a week. It's they're, they're You can, you can only go with so much minimal kitchen staff. You can only go with so much minimal front of the house staff, which is labor being your, your highest expense. You can only cut your food costs so, so much. If the sales aren't there and it's, it's, it's always preferable to go get more sales and, and a lot harder to cut costs

Jonathan: 37:06

Yeah. The old adage being, you can't cut your way to profitability, right? You just, at some point it's diminishing return because you're going to sacrifice service or you're going to sacrifice food quality. And then, you know, that's, that's the death spiral.

David: 37:19

Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's a better, it's, it's, I think it's a better focus because Any, any draconian management team can come in and, and, and, and slash costs, but make, making yourself irresistibly desirable and craveable. And, and like, I can't wait to have that again, or I'd have to have that again. That's, that's the magic sauce that doesn't, doesn't just happen.

Jonathan: 37:51

I often feel that way about your burger at lunchtime that it's a seriously good, good burger. And the, the fries that come with it are

David: 37:59

Right.

Jonathan: 38:01

Yeah.

David: 38:02

I eat a lot of baked potatoes during COVID. And so that's where the, that's where the fries come from. We bake a whole potato and then, and then make the, bake the fries out of it. And it's just, the starch gets just right when you bake it

Jonathan: 38:14

That's awesome. That's awesome. So before we kind of turn towards our wrap up, I wanted to ask you very specifically, Because you have been working with and in business with your dad for a long time now. And I would love to hear your perspective on what it's like to be able to work with your dad. And you know, how, how involved is he? And, and I know from personal experience, just even just from last week, I know he's involved. How does that work? How do you divide and conquer? Who deals with what? And, you know, what happens when you have the inevitable disagreement?

David: 38:54

well, and they're, they're, they're often the, the, The first part that I'll address is, is the relationship component. Because, you know, my, my dad being a renowned Boone Wine Hall of Fame chef, you know, we didn't connect on cars or football you know, food, food was always our kind of, our kind of common language. And he, he taught me things. early on and kind of his, his food philosophy that, you know, is, is going to be with me for the rest of my life. And he's, he's been my, my greatest mentor and teacher. When it comes to the actual work, a lot, a lot harder said than done. Especially, especially as, as, you know, kind of roles shift and change and things move around when we were in our former company, we had, you know, 300, 400 employees and, and there was a lot of, a lot of layers and a lot of resources and we actually didn't work together that much. I would, I would, I would write the menus. You know, he would come around and a pine. We would, he would, he would drop some, some wisdom, some nuggets that we would, that we would apply. He'd come up with a dish here and there. And, and our, our relationship was kind of more like he was a mad scientist and I would implement whatever crazy new development we had. Cause he could sometimes spend months on something, but not know where to put it. And I was always good at. Taking it and plugging it in like this works here. This fits here and giving it a home and place catering is where his You know, shipping business background really comes through because he was, he was charged with having to load containers, you know, to the brim specifically with specific weights and if anything was off, it was his ass. And so, you know, that, that kind of going to battle organization and mentality that you, that you need for that kind of job is, is perfect for catering. And which is, which is where. He helps out the most right now because, you know, we're, we're the concessionaire and cater for the Houston polo club, which is a very complex, multifaceted operation. You know, we have some partnerships with other venues around town. And quite frankly, it's the area of business that we need to grow the most and where we we really, we really thrive.

Jonathan: 41:31

It's, it's interesting to have that. Yeah. That, that intersection of hospitality, restaurants, and just, Logistics, right? I mean, just general basic logistics. People, I don't think people fully comprehend how difficult it is to do things offsite when you've got to take things out of your kitchen, prepare things, take them out, transport them, keep a, keep it safe, right? And then recreate it somewhere else that is not a facility. It's not a restaurant, doesn't have a kitchen. I mean, all of that is incredibly difficult. Yeah.

David: 42:06

it's never the same. It's never, it's never the same. There's, there's so many variables to work with. You know, you, you can't, you can't be asleep at the wheel.

Jonathan: 42:15

So where do you see what, what, where do you see yourselves going thoughts on, you know, the future? This limb bar is, is, as we know, it's about a year and a half old and truly coming into its own. Where do you see that going? Is your focus there? Is it, is it multiple locations? Is it the catering business? And then I want to take it from there and get your quick thoughts on just the future of the Houston hospitality and restaurant industry, where you see the overall industry going.

David: 42:48

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we are currently looking at, at some other, other locations.

Jonathan: 42:52

Cool.

David: 42:53

Not, not, not necessarily Lynn Barr again, the, the site I believe should dictate The, the, the concept. So we're, we're looking at, at several at the moment, but catering is definitely where, where we need to expand. I, I grew catering to our largest revenue center and our former company. And I need to, I need to win back some battleground. There, there's still, there's still a lot of market confusion. I think people looking for. Our services are still going to our former company. So we are not trust was catering for those of you listening.

Jonathan: 43:32

Yeah. Very, very important distinction that Churrasco's is no longer Cordua. It's Cordua Catering, Cordua Catering Group, right? And Limbar.

David: 43:42

still, still, still very proud of the work we did there, but if you want our, our services, yeah, come, come to limbar. com for catering. And then, and then lastly, I do think we still have a lot of work to do in the eye on, as I mentioned, making it. abundantly clear that this is a place for the public to come on and be be that that welcoming of an environment. The parking is incredibly accessible. The building. The building is gorgeous. You know, it's a great lunch spot. It's a great date spot. So we're not we're not I'm not done there yet at all, but we do have some other locations

Jonathan: 44:26

I think that's always a challenge when you, when you're in either an industrial building or a hotel. You know, as you mentioned, kind of feeling like that, that hotel lobby sort of restaurant, but it's always a challenge to get people to think of it as a place to go and not just an amenity to the building. Right. And, and that's, that's always a challenge no matter where you are.

David: 44:47

Correct. But some of the greatest, you know, restaurants in the country are, are in, in hotels and office buildings. So it, it, it's doable. You can be a destination on its own. I think Houston is you know, now part of the the, the culinary zeitgeist of, of the country and, and outside of the country. I was just in Mexico City. in November for food and wine, food and wine festival. And Houston was the, was the featured city. I mean, I would never have imagined that 10, 15 years ago. So it's, you know, we, I did a television program with PBS called the Houston cookbook. It's not just, it's not a secret. People know who we are, but that just means that the standards are that much that much higher. We're also in a in a, in a market where there, there is a shortage of staff front of the house. And back to the house. Turnover is the highest that I have seen it in my life, in my lifetime. Just because if, if for any reason, know, something doesn't go their way, you know, there, there's a, there's a restaurant ready to take you in. Next door literally. And that's, that's to the detriment of the industry because a lot of owners and operators aren't investing in, in, in their people as much as they should.

Jonathan: 46:14

Yeah. And I, I think we're still as we, we touched on very briefly early on, you know, we're still in recovery mode from the COVID years. And I think, I think that sometimes the general public and the consumer doesn't quite appreciate how we're still trying to recover, particularly from labor numbers and not just labor numbers, but qualified labor. Because we, we lost so many hospitality workers to other industries during COVID. We may be getting people back in, but they don't have the experience. They don't have the history. They're new to the industry overall, which is, you know, it just takes time. It doesn't happen overnight to get more qualified and experienced labor back into the restaurants.

David: 47:02

and if I, if I can say something, you know, as much, as much as we want the restaurant industry to offer everyone a high livable wage with, with decent hours. It's it's not there yet because the margins in our industry are, are so razor thin, but I think there's, there's two things that we can, that we can offer that a lot of industries don't. One is training, right? Is, is, is developing people whether it's in, in wine knowledge and food knowledge, and, and. Back of the house knowledge, you know, invest, investing in people and training is something that is more valuable than going to culinary school, going to, you know, any, any kind of traits

Jonathan: 47:52

And also showing up on time and being responsible and customer service and all the things that aren't the tactile, you know, cooking or serving, but just being a good employee, good person, you know, communicating all of those things. It's a great first job. It's a great entry into the market.

David: 48:08

and the other, the other thing besides training that we can offer when we can't, you know, always offer more money where we can offer as time. Time is the other currency that we can, that we can offer to people. If you're, if you're still in school, look, you know, give us, give us three, four solid days. If you're working a side gig, give us three, four solid days. I always fantasize about the hospitality industry adopting the nursing schedule, like give me, three, four solid 10 hour days, and then take three, four days off, you know that's attractive to a lot of people. I think that wouldn't be attractive to a lot of people.

Jonathan: 48:47

Well, and we, and we know with how competitive it is right now, some of the other benefits that are being offered beyond just, you know, health insurance or 401ks, which were unheard of, you know, 10 years ago, certainly a more flexible schedule is something that has to be given now just to be competitive in the labor market.

David: 49:08

yeah. And it, you know, the exodus of, Of people during, during COVID leaving the industry and never interested in even looking back should be a wake up call that there's, there's something in the formula and the value equation that isn't, that isn't working. So it's, it's important for us as an industry to, to look at ourselves and say, okay, there's, there's something not right with this, with this mix. We need, we need to, we need to fix this formula a little bit so that the value equation is, is across the board.

Jonathan: 49:43

Yeah, no, I wholeheartedly agree. Well, I think that's a a great place to transition. And we are going to wrap it up here with chef David Cordua of the limb bar in Midtown Houston. And as we do chef David, for all of our guests, we have three final questions for you. And I, I know That this first one is going to be right up your alley because you alluded to it earlier. And the question is this, if you had to get on a plane tomorrow for no reason, what is your favorite travel destination? Where are you going to go at the drop of a hat tomorrow?

David: 50:21

Paris,

Jonathan: 50:21

Paris.

David: 50:22

It's, it's a, it's a cool little playground. People don't realize how small it

Jonathan: 50:27

Yeah. Yeah.

David: 50:31

It's just so fun to continue to discover.

Jonathan: 50:32

That's cool. I I would agree with you there. Okay. So question number two, you're talking to somebody from somewhere else. Doesn't matter where they're from, but they've never been to Houston. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you are giving them your pitch, and you are trying to convince them why they should come visit our city. What are you going to tell them is the best reason why they should hop on a plane and come to Houston?

David: 50:54

More theater seats than New York City. Some of the most incredible museums in the world. The Houston Cisterns, which I think is one of the gems in the city. But, but also just, just come and eat your way through because, You can travel the entire globe. And it's not an easy city to understand. You have to peel it apart kind of neighborhood by neighborhood, but it's a fun one to pick apart.

Jonathan: 51:22

Yeah. We've had some discussions about how difficult it is to sort of pigeonhole, like, like we don't have that one phrase that encompasses the entire city, right? We're not the live music capital of the world, or we're not the windy city or, you know, whatever it is. Houston is so big and so diverse, and there's so many great reasons to come here that you touched on. I mean, just the hospitality and the arts and everything that goes into it. It's very difficult to encapsulate into one little phrase. It's tough. Yeah.

David: 51:50

The, the, Houston First is using the culinary capital of the South.

Jonathan: 51:54

Yeah, I think that works. I would certainly agree with that from,

David: 51:59

I would agree with it.

Jonathan: 51:59

but that's culinary, right. And, you know, so that doesn't necessarily incorporate the arts or all of the other things that we have to offer. So it's tough. I mean, it's tough whole nother discussion. Okay. Third and final question. You've been in this business for a long time, and I know that you talk to other folks who are coming up in the business. So I want to know, what is the, Probably the one most important thing that you've learned in your business career, something that you would pass along to somebody who is coming up in the industry or wants to follow in your footsteps from a purely business perspective. What advice are you going to give them?

David: 52:40

The, the hierarchy of, a restaurant is very similar to, I think, businesses. Your first priority is your staff. It's not the customer. Your first priority is your staff. You take care of the staff, then the staff will take care of your guests. You take care of the guests, then you take care of your investors. When you take care of your investors, then the, then the owners are taken care of as well. And that, that hierarchy of Of order, I think is, is very obvious in the restaurant industry and can apply to a lot of other industries. It's

Jonathan: 53:18

yeah, certainly holds true for, for all of hospitality, but restaurant industry in particular, it's, it's always about the people and running that business with your people because you can't do it without them. You just can't. It doesn't matter if you have a bunch of customers and no staff, you're in trouble.. Well, we have been talking with chef David Cordua with Cordua Catering and Limbar in Midtown Houston at the wonderful ION building. So many thanks to you, chef David, for joining us and giving us your perspective and the history. I learned a lot particularly about your history and your family, which is one of the iconic restaurant families in the city of Houston. So we thank you for that. And of course, many thanks to the Houston hospitality Alliance for continuing to connect and educate, promote, and advocate for the entire Houston hospitality community. You can get more information on the HHA at www. houstonhospitalityalliance. com. Please join us next time as we continue to explore the people and the businesses behind Houston's amazing and diverse hospitality industry. We'll see you next time.